Fanuc Tool change strangness

[spock]

MickeyD may have something there. You would think that if there was an issue with air pressure, and the machine stopped, you would get an alarm telling you why. I have found that that is not always the case.
On my above example, where the toolchange macro is "locking out" the setting of the rapid over-ride switch during the change, then "reading" it anew at the end of the macro, when it processed the macro faster than the signal populated the ladder, it would complete the change and default to 100% rapid rate, then stop the next time it tried to run the toolchange macro, becuase the signal from the switch was missing from the ladder.
There was no alarm written to go with this, and so the machine just sat there with the green light still on, even though there had neen a malfunction. I guess that the MTB or Fanuc never considered that this might happen, thus no alarm.

[Hertz]

Try it like this. It works for me.

T5M06
G00G90G54X-1.19Y1.19S1440M3T8 (Will get tool 8 in ready position) (I also don't believe you need the spindle start here if you're using M29.) (You won't need the G90 in this line either if you use G53)
G43Z0.1H5M08
M29S1440
G84Z-0.95R0.1F80.
Y-1.19
X1.19
Y1.19
G52X1.75
X-1.19Y1.19
Y-1.19
X1.19
Y1.19
G80M9
G0Z2.M9 <----Don't need this line. Canned cycle comes up to r value automatically (Unless you have to clear something, its pointless.)
G52X0<----I never use this so I can't say if its the problem or not. I do believe however you need to have X0 AND Y0 in there as well to cancel the G52?? I could be wrong.
G00G91G28Y0Z0 OR G53 Z0Y0 then skip the next line altogether if you use G53.
G90<-----Don't need this. Each toolchange has G90 on the following line.(In your program anyway) (Also won't need it if you use G53 instead of G28, not both)
M6 Maybe even an M19 before it if it still doesn't work.
M30
%

So Basically
T5M06
G00G54X-1.19Y1.19T8
G43Z0.1H5M08
M29S1440
G84Z-0.95R0.1F80.
Y-1.19
X1.19
Y1.19
G52X1.75
X-1.19Y1.19
Y-1.19
X1.19
Y1.19
G80M9
G52X0Y0
G53Z0Y0
M6
M30
%


I notice too you have G53 and G28 used together. I don't understand this. Why use G28 if your machine supports G53? That could be something thats giving you a problem.

Other than that, the program looks fine.

[Hertz]

Did you figure out what the problem was? Kinda curious as to what was happening.

[ARB]

It has yet to do it again. This is a very intermittent problem that only seems to occur on one particular job. I just ran a sister job to it with a similar load of tools but did not have one problem.

I think we will be running this part again next week so we will get another chance to see. I will put the program back to the way it was when it was giving me trouble and then work from there and see if I can track down the problem.

The biggest problem is that this will run fine for hours or days without a hickup then it will just hang on that tool change.

If all goes well this was just a blue moon thing and I don't think we are having one of those for quite some time.

I will post back with an update when I run this part again.

Happy Friday

[Mickey_D]

I had mine come back again this week. I used a couple of tool holders that I had not used in a while and had a little bit of Boeshield on them. I always wipe them down with a clean rag and then with my hand to check for burrs, and they did not feel funny or sticky before I loaded them in. It started randomly sticking on the change again just like it did with the hollow studs. I figured out what was wrong when I grabbed another toolholder that was really coated so I pulled and cleaned them all and the spindle bore too and now it is running flawlessly again.

[ARB]

Hmm. Wouldn't you know. I ran another couple hundred of these parts without a hitch.

I guess I will roll with if for now.

[ARB]

It's back.

Today with a different tool combination but always with the change from 3 to 4 and not every cycle.

I think I will look for the spindle orient switch. This sounds like a likely culprit for this.

[repairguy]

Maybe I missed something in an earlier post, but I didn't see any info as to where in the toolchange it fails. Does it do anything or does it stop without starting the toolchange sequence. Lots of things to check, all depending on where it fails in the cycle.

Dan

[ARB]

Originally Posted by repairguy

Maybe I missed something in an earlier post, but I didn't see any info as to where in the toolchange it fails. Does it do anything or does it stop without starting the toolchange sequence. Lots of things to check, all depending on where it fails in the cycle.

Dan

In my situation the machine comes to the tool change line
T4M6
then just sits there with the previous tool in the spindle. The machine remains in cycle and feed hold will not drop it out of cycle. I must hit reset to stop the machine.

I can then go to edit move back to the T4M6 line and restart and all is fine.

Out of the 80 cycles today it has stopped 3 times.

I'm still open for ideas.

I figure I'll check all my prox switches and make sure everbody is adjusted correctly and none of the wires are ifffy.

[repairguy]

When it fails, does the head go to toolchange height? Does the spindle try to orient?

Dan

[ARB]

When it hangs up the tool is oriented at the tool change height. The carousel make no attempt to move.

I get no alarms when this happens. The green lights are flashing.

[Ox]

If it only ever does it on change 3-4, then it sure doesn't sound like an electric/control/orient issue?

There must be something special about the #3 or 4 tool/pocket/etc ?

Is this an umberella? Sidemount?

Maybe a prox/limit slightly outta adjustment on the tool chain?

If it's an umberella - could the sensor @ pocket 3 be dropping out for some reason? Is tool 3 a long cycle time? Could a prox be heating up possibly? Eny idea what fer system that the machine uses for the toolchanger tool station?


I guess one question really begs:

"Why haven't you changed tool pockets on this job to date:"

A) to see if the issue migrates

B) to git parts out the door w/o issue



----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[repairguy]

Got a wiring diagram with the inputs and outputs listed on it? If so when it fails we can check the state of the switches in question. We could also see if it's giving an output for the solenoid valve to move the umbrella under the spindle. Need to find out just where it's failing.

Dan

[Mattedroom]

I was about to say the same thing as repair guy. I am sure you have the manuals on the electrical. Take a look thru the ladder, and if you don't really know how to use the ladder, now is a good time to learn. It's a great tool when trouble shooting. It's helped me on a ton of tool changer issues.

[ARB]

Originally Posted by Ox

If it only ever does it on change 3-4, then it sure doesn't sound like an electric/control/orient issue?

There must be something special about the #3 or 4 tool/pocket/etc ?

Is this an umberella? Sidemount?

Maybe a prox/limit slightly outta adjustment on the tool chain?

If it's an umberella - could the sensor @ pocket 3 be dropping out for some reason? Is tool 3 a long cycle time? Could a prox be heating up possibly? Eny idea what fer system that the machine uses for the toolchanger tool station?


I guess one question really begs:

"Why haven't you changed tool pockets on this job to date:"

A) to see if the issue migrates

B) to git parts out the door w/o issue



----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Ox,
This usta only happen on a different combination when I ran a particular program.

Today is the first time it has done it on this combination.

After my initial bout with it today. 3 fails in about 10 cycles it ran fine the rest of the day.

That makes me happe but makes the problem harder to pin point.

Now that the parts are done I can mess around with some things to see what is going on.


Next time It happens I'll do some input checking to see what it going on.

If I was smart I would know where in the ladder to look when it is running to see if I could make sense of it.

[repairguy]

If you would rather you can check the I/O throught the PMC diag screen. X is used for inputs and Y is used for outputs. If you know which input/output you are looking for you can see if it is high or low. If you know what you're looking for but are unable to find it let us know and we can walk you through it.

Dan

[barbter]

Sure this isn't a timer issue?
If it hangs, it could be waiting for a signal that hasn't/won't happen.
Is this tool heavy (facemill) running flat out revs so it takes longer for the spindle to stop and orientate? Where other times (when it's working ok) it's stopping from less revs or with lighter tools in the spindle?
It sounds to me that it could be a threshold setting which needs tweaking???

[spock]

My tech discovered my problem (missing signal) by watching the ladder, while the toolchanger was cycling over and over in a loop. This caused mine to hang up regular enough that he didnt have to wait long. And it was a timing issue, as stated above in one of my earlier posts, and was fixed by slowing down the toolchange macro in the right location.

[barbter]

Originally Posted by spock

And it was a timing issue, as stated above in one of my earlier posts, and was fixed by slowing down the toolchange macro in the right location.

Or increase the threshold (time) in the related keep replay?

[cncprogman]

Two factors that haven't been mentioned that will cause tool change issues- tool holders could be worn and spindle taper could be worn. I have had issues with just 1 or 2 tools hanging up and found that the taper needed grinding and the tool holders replaced.