KF3S (?) attachment - what is it?

[dm1try]

this attachment was found in the same box with several spindles, which i identified as deckel kf3s's. anyone recognizes that thing? that is it used for? thanks.

[Martin P]

modell milling attachment?! See archives.

[Arno]

Originally Posted by dm1try

this attachment was found in the same box with several spindles, which i identified as deckel kf3s's. anyone recognizes that thing? that is it used for? thanks.

As shown in your picture, it is the 3014 Pattern Forming attachment which can be used on any KF (1/12/2/2S/3S).
A separate 112 page operators manual, bound in fused plastic covers, is available.

[dm1try]

thanks, i've found the page scan in the archive!

Originally Posted by Arno

A separate 112 page operators manual, bound in fused plastic covers, is available.

thanks, but i don't have a KF. i was thinking if it worth it saving the thing from a dumpster... looks like a very specialized accessory, imho.
i've bought a couple of smaller spindles with a thought of adapting them to my humble mill-drill (sic! ). the guy has 4 more spindles from the same machine: 2 straight ISO40 (one geared, one direct driven) with collets, one inclined and one long-necked with small swiveling head. maybe will pick them up also...
btw, how does a toolbit is mounted in the later one? with some weird collet?

[rkdeckel]

Yea, I got one of those also, anyone need it?
RK

[Arno]

Originally Posted by dm1try

i don't have a KF. i was thinking if it worth it saving the thing from a dumpster... looks like a very specialized accessory, imho.

To use the 3014 Pattern Forming attachment on a KF it needs to be complete with the cross bracket and vertical rod to be attached to the central boss see attachment).

i've bought a couple of smaller spindles with a thought of adapting them to my humble mill-drill (sic! ). the guy has 4 more spindles from the same machine: 2 straight ISO40 (one geared, one direct driven) with collets,

The ISO 40 spindles can only be used on the KF 3S or with any home made fixture to drive the pulley at the other end.

one inclined and one long-necked with small swiveling head. maybe will pick them up also...

The 3018 Angular spindle and the 3038 Corner milling spindle must be used in pairs on the KF, one cutter spindle and one tracer spindle.
The bottom of the 3038 is the same as the 2036.200050 for the FPs (and could be used for parts for it).

btw, how does a toolbit is mounted in the later one? with some weird collet?

The collets are not industry standard. I don't know if they are available from FPS. They are simple enough to make but, they revolve at 2000-6000 rpm on the KFs and 4000 and 6000 rpm on the FPs.

[dm1try]

Arno, thank you very much. It's pretty clear with the pattern formnig attachment. Interesting device, but i don't see how I can use it.
meanwhile my spindles have arrived. It looks like they have never been used, a bit of rust point on the outside, but nothing serious. Collets were not that lucky, some are seriously pitted. But the price was right, so I can't complain...
The question is: should I attempt to disassemble and regrease them? I can't tell how long spindles were sitting... I have found a KF3S manual on ebay, it has a sample page on rough milling spindle with disassembly instructions. Bbut instructions do not specify any required torque values, so i'm a bit suspicious that it can be not that simple...
http://www.yurtaev.com/pics/rough.jpg

[Arno]

Dimitry,
Form your description I am pretty sure that the Rough millig spindle did not see hard use so I wouldn't take it apart. The Klueber Isoflex Supper Tel should not detoriate without much heat.
If you spin the pulley, in spite of the drag, if everything feels smooth I wouldn't do anything.

If you did buy the 3018 30* Angular spindle and it shows signs of use, you should regrease the bevel gears with a lithium type of grease, but don't over pack it.

[dm1try]

got it, thanks. i won't get inside if it works. btw, a few years ago you've said that:

3333 Rough Milling Spindles have an ID tooling configuration to accept NMTB40 tool holders.

i can see that the taper looks like ISO40, but since there's no drawbar and standard shanks have a flange greater than spindle nose thread i can't imagine how... is there some clever way to fix standard shanks? or am i just dreaming?

[Arno]

Originally Posted by dm1try

i can see that the taper looks like ISO40, but since there's no drawbar and standard shanks have a flange greater than spindle nose thread i can't imagine how... is there some clever way to fix standard shanks? or am i just dreaming?

Unfortunately, the ID is NMTB 40, see here. Flanges are not part of the NMTB description.
The only way to hold a standard holder is to cut down which ever flange it has to a diameter to fit through the Deckel collet closure nut.

The machines were shipped with a 25 mm collet and a 25 mm straight shank tool holder with a set of 10 triangular inserts. (Prices for the inserts were so outrageous that, to my knowledge, we never sold any afterwards.)

Your spindle looks as if it was never used, with the nicks in the paint just coming from banging around a drawer.

[dm1try]

Originally Posted by Arno

The only way to hold a standard holder is to cut down which ever flange it has to a diameter to fit through the Deckel collet closure nut.

ok, i see, thanks. that was obvious, but i had to ask

Your spindle looks as if it was never used, with the nicks in the paint just coming from banging around a drawer.

yep. it had a 25mm collet inside, as you said, which caused a slight discoloration on the taper as it was never removed...

it looks like that at least some collets out of two ISO40 sets i got have survived... with a little wire-brushing i can barely see a needle move on a 2um DTI. i hope i will get a complete good set after sorting them out.

just out of curiousity. i don't have a manual for kf3s, how the drive was organized? it had a variator, which then drove the spindle with either a V- or round belt? 2-step pulley as on a spindle? A-profile+round for rough milling spindle and X+round for finishing?
and those over-engineered ball-bearing rotating collars with oval-shaped cavities in stubs on sides - are they used for holding a belt cover?

[ole.steen]

Dimitry!

I've sent you a PM.

Ole

[Arno]

Dimitry,
If you need more info than what Ole can give you, send me an email and I will send you some scans.

Originally Posted by dm1try

just out of curiousity. i don't have a manual for kf3s, how the drive was organized? it had a variator, which then drove the spindle with either a V- or round belt? 2-step pulley as on a spindle? A-profile+round for rough milling spindle and X+round for finishing?
and those over-engineered ball-bearing rotating collars with oval-shaped cavities in stubs on sides - are they used for holding a belt cover?

That's just about it.

[ole.steen]

Here is another scan that gives you an idea of the possibilities: