My new FP 42NC with Dialog 11

[Deckel Fan]

Hi,

Last week I found a Deckel FP 42 with fliphead and Dialog 11 in the web. It looked nice but had a damage at the z axis ballscrew. Because this machine type was always my dream machine and the price was good I had to buy it.
And I did it!

Now I am one of about 15 men that own a FP 42NC with Dialog 11.

But the most interesting thing for you are the pictures.
I only have this good one from the seller here and will give you more when the machine is in my storage for inspection and repair.

Now I only have to organize the transport of the machine and check my storage fore some spares for the machine

Cheers Stephan

[Kees]

Isn't that a huge maschine for your garage?

[Milacron]

Congratulatons. Ironic that large Deckel has an electrical cabinet much smaller than my FP2 with D11. Speaking of electrical cabinet...why is there a computer sitting on top ? If it's because the monitor is out on the control, I can advise you which LCD (or TFT as you Euros like to call them) monitor to get to replace the one in the control. As cheap as $50 on eBay.

[Martin P]

[QUOTE=Deckel Fan;1218903]

Now I am one of about 15 men that own a FP 42NC with Dialog 11.

QUOTE]

And the only headbanger!

So you have one, then there is the one always on EBay, then the one south of Munich.
Wasn't there one in Spain? Which else?

Kees, he already has an FP42 and an FP5NC in the garage! Serious re-organization is in process.

As to machine prices: Stephan could buy this thing because of the rather serious slump in machine prices. I find it quite distressing how prices are in free-fall for older CNC machines. Stocks are picking up, but I only see shops closing or shops having 80% less work. Not only the situation worries me, but also the disparity of what I hear from the machinery sector as compared to the finance sector.
I'd say that older NC Deckels have dropped at least 30% in Germany in one year. MAHO's even more. Not so much effected are very late Deckel NCs (none on the market anyway).
New machine manufacturing seems to have ground to a halt.

[Milacron]

Originally Posted by Martin P

I'd say that older NC Deckels have dropped at least 30% in Germany. MAHO's even more. Not so much effected are very late Deckel NCs (none on the market anyway).

For my curiosity, what do you mean by "very late Deckel NC's"... do you mean like 1990 FP4NC or are you really talking about the DMG machines 1999 or newer ?

[Kees]

I've also had the impression prices were going down, even for conventional machinery.
But I am buying not much as my shop is already filled to the last square meter.

[Martin P]

With very late I mean the approx. 1988 through 1993 FP2/3/4NC flip head machines with Dialog 11. Almost none on the market. I am not familiar with most of the even later machines (some badged Deckel Maho), but at least the early 90ies CC machines are also very depressed.
"A" machines with D11 or Contour 3 are also very down. I could have bought a very nice FP4A D11 for 10kE. That would have been a good deal a year ago.
See some pics of those here:
http://www.dialog5.com/dialog1112112.htm

[Milacron]

Originally Posted by Martin P

Not so much effected are very late Deckel NCs (none on the market anyway).

If there are none on the market how do you know there prices are not down ?? (when one finally does come on the market) In real estate this would be called a "no comps" situation, such that value apprasial is very difficult.

[Martin P]

Originally Posted by Milacron

If there are none on the market how do you know there prices are not down ?? (when one finally does come on the market) In real estate this would be called a "no comps" situation, such that value apprasial is very difficult.

I did not mean literally none of course, I think there is one on EBay right now. But there are so few out there that it is clear people hang on to them and they are the last to be sold when some machines have to go. My prediction is they will remain the "want-to-have" machines, sort of like the late manual aktiv digital, since these are the last and best real Deckel "NC" universal toolmaker machines.

Stephans machine is a white elephant, and in a category of its own.

[Deckel Fan]

Kess as Martin said I have a FP 42 NC in the garage and a FP 5 NC. But I will sell the old FP 42 NC and perhaps keep the FP 5 NC in the garage....

...why is there a computer sitting on top ?

The PC is standing on the cabinet because they did data transfer.-)

But what I really like: They used the old FP 42NC Dialog 1-4 cabinet and did not choose the lager one from the NC normal fliphead machines with Dialog 11.
They also did the same at your machine Milacron they took the standard C3 cabinet and build in the D11.

So you have one, then there is the one always on EBay, then the one south of Munich.
Wasn't there one in Spain? Which else?

I know from three machines in Germany one in Spain and one in Turkey.

[Leon Mertens]

Congratulations with the machine,

Looks like a really rigid machine,

whats the x-travel of the machine (about 1170mm ???)

just wondering off someone knows of the reliability between a d11 an d4 control, because i heard that spare's are not very cheap from a d11 control

I work almost every day with the dialog 112 control, really like the control, little bit of lagging between the menu's but works great


@ Martin don't know if you need information from the dialog 112 control i can give you if you want,
watched you're site saw some infomation for the dialog 112, maybe you want some expansion

[Martin P]

Leon,

I'd love some info on the Dialog 112. I have absolutely nothing on it.
Info like capabilities, memory, which amplifiers and so on would be very appreciated. And pictures of course!

This morning I really kicked myself. There was a brochure on late Deckel NC machines on german EBay. Just the right one to fill a void in my collection. As I push the bid button somewhat sleepily 10 sec before auction end at 5:30 a.m. I notice I am not logged in. So I missed it. That aggravated me more then the millions I am being screwed for at work and I barely restrained myself from kicking the cat (just kiddin).

Oh, and on the Dialog 11: electronic parts prices have become sort of reasonably priced. A good indicator is the guy (Siebert?) selling boards on EBay.

[Deckel Fan]

Travels are: X*Y*Z 1170*500*370 mm

The Dialog 11 is not that robust as the Dialog 4. And the boards are more complex and not that easy to repair but I think I will learn it and if you always look for cooling it's not that dramatically.
So one of the first things I will do at the machine is cleaning the heat exchanger and replace all fans.

[Milacron]

Originally Posted by Deckel Fan

Travels are: X*Y*Z 1170*500*370 mm

The Dialog 11 is not that robust as the Dialog 4. And the boards are more complex and not that easy to repair but I think I will learn it and if you always look for cooling it's not that dramatically.

Please define "robust". The word I got from DMG techs is that the D11 machines in the USA are actually more reliable than previous Dialog models. But true when something goes wrong they are not as easy to repair.

Best solution I see if you need to keep machine running without fears of repair delays is to buy a "scrap" D11 machine so you always have module spares lying around. I had a brief opportunity to buy an FP5 with D11 a few months ago that was in a fire for cheap but someone else beat me to it. (smoke damage only...control was fine) If in the right place at the right time you can buy an entire D11 machine for less than the price of one D11 module !

[wrench]

Congratulations, Stephan.... I have to say that you must be wearing your welcome out at home though! That machine is *huge* so I assume it isn't going into the garage (?).

Don: TFT vs LCD... Actually I don't think it is a European thing (99% sure). TFT implies a specific technology of LCD. It is a supertwist version that allows for greater viewing angle. That said, I think most LCDs are of the TFT variety now so the terms are often used interchangeably and perhaps Europe has adopted more of the technical variation than the generic name (?).

[Deckel Fan]

So today it was time to load the machine.

Here is a picture from the machine on the truck


And today morning it arrived in my second storage 300 km away from my home :-(
Next week I will give it a visit and I hope I can bring it back under power without big problems.

An then I can explain you Milacron why the Dialog 11 is not that robust....

[Milacron]

Originally Posted by Deckel Fan

An then I can explain you Milacron why the Dialog 11 is not that robust....

Good...as the word "robust" can mean different things...usually it would refer to how resistant something is to breakage when dropped !

[AlfaGTA]

Stephan:
Nice looking machine...Anxious to hear more about the D11....
Just wondering, if it was you that did the loading and tie down of the machine, or did you get a rigger/driver to handle that?
Cheers Ross

[Deckel Fan]

The seller loaded the Machine to the truck and because his forklift was only a 3t version he had to lift it without the table.
Rigging is always part of the shipper. The driver asked me where he could rig and rigging at the foot of the machine is okay.

[peterve]

Hello Stephan

Nice machine It was offered to me too but I a glad you at last bought one and even in Holland
But just rigging it to the feet like that would not have been my solution
You create too little downforce this way,making it shift easy when braking

Peter from Holland