Need to ramp up production: New machine or new employee?

[StreetSpeed]

Originally Posted by gottabench

If your cycle is 4 minutes are you making your labor rate ? OR did you under bid the job ? If your making your rate why not leave it alone.It sounds as though your not into prodction so why spend the money if not needed.Sure you could use it somewhere else but would you and if you really needed it you would already have one.So you go out an spend $13,000 next month the job stops.(Don't say it can't because it can,we purchased a new lathe last year to ramp up.One month after having it set up and wired the orders stopped) It sure did look nice sitting there waiting to find work for it.

No we're making money on these things, but the point is they want to increase production and have delivery times be better. That's just not gonna happen with out either upgraded equipment or more personel. And yes, anything I bought to speed up this job I would use basically on a daily basis, regardless if this customer was wiped from the face of the earth or not.

[VSMI]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

And yes, anything I bought to speed up this job I would use basically on a daily basis, regardless if this customer was wiped from the face of the earth or not.

Well there is your answer then.

[Joe788]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

1-Turn side 1
2 - Turn side 2
3 - Mill keyways 4 up on an arbor on indexer #1 - I blast through these
4 - Mill angles on indexer #2 at 17 degrees. Thusly, we can only ever run 1 part at a time - Need fast indexer to save lots of time not in cut
5 - Mill slots on VMC in 15 piece fixture. - Time could be saved here with manual pallet changer and 10,000 rpm spindle, but I need a probe in that machine
6 - Heat Treat to 55 HRC
7 - Take a ride in the tumbler to remove burrs. We run 40 at a time and they take about 2 hours a batch
8 - Grit blast to make pretty
9 - Hard turn two ID bores
10 - CNC Grind OD
11 - Box up and ship out

Another way to look at this job, is as a stepping stone to get into newer technology. If you used this job to make the payments on one of these:



You'd combine the first 5 operations, get a blazing fast indexer, a 12,000rpm spindle, and much better accuracy than you're currently getting. So now you've cut your labor and machining time in half, and you've still got a ridiculously advanced piece of equipment that can literally transform the way you do business. Obviously this is a little bigger commitment than a new indexer!

Seriously though, it sounds like just adding the manual pallet changer to OP5 and getting a better indexer for OP4 will help a lot.

[alkometal]

well i am in the same sort of situation
parts needs 3 ops to finish with the current equipment i have
today the mazak sales man came by and the only solution to make my parts on an integrex style machine.
the multi turret lathes where to smal in diam to make all the parts on 1 machine with minimum setup time.
biggest we turn are 350mm flanges with diffrent threads in it and some shafts diam 50 with a maximun lengt of 400mm.

so i am doing some number crushing here to to see if it will be profitable to make such a large investment for just a 2 man band

[StreetSpeed]

Joe you know if it was up to me that's exactly what I'd do. All in due time...

[alkometal]

If i where you i would make a simple spreadsheet with the cost of the improved equipment without another employe and one without the equipemt but with the extra employe on a 5 or 6 year basis.
in the long run the equipment will be paid of and cost nothing but some maintenace but the person is costing the same every year atlest.
just sit around the table with your father and a good accountant.

[Ox]

My advice to you? - No! Definately don't buy that machine up top! That stuff costs WAY too much!

Just buy the rotary... yeah that's it.

Or better yet, just hire someone else and share the wealth. You know - you can lay off the operator if it comes to it. (2009?) But the bank still expects that payment for some reason?


If it were me tho - I'd just toss it on my lathe and run complete.

(Well - maybe not the HT part... )


--------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[Tonytn36]

Hrm....wonder what the OD of those parts is....

This would be the trick set up..... for those angled slots......
http://www.hardingeus.com/usr/pdf/collet/2372E_LR.pdf

Check the LPX5C2-04 (My pdf viewer says page 14 of 28).

If they are less than 5" OD, you could load up 4 of em in expanding collets with pneumatic closers. Very quick change and your getting 4 parts per cycle instead of 1.

Oh...and btw, you can separate the two units and use either one....

[BobWarfield]

Love this thread!

It's been said, but worth saying again: your capital expenditure option for the indexers etc. lowers your cost basis going forward on lots of jobs, not just this one. Those are very general purpose investments. Hiring the employee doesn't lower and might even increase your cost basis.

We lost so much manufacturing because we did not lower our cost basis and the cheap bidders came in and we were not competitive.

Stay competitive! In fact, push your competition until they can't compete.

Cheers,

BW

[Tool Wall]

We are a small manufacturer of hydraulic and pneumatic manifolds and always try to find efficiencies in the processes first. Whether it be overhead material handling cranes, magnetic chucks (this was a HUGE time saver for us), program tweaks, or through software, we always try to look at a better way to do something. We actually developed a product out of a need we had. Tool Wall started as a way to reduce setup time, and wow, did it ever work.

I would try and find efficiencies in the processes and if that includes some capital investment, go for it. Another body will only produce another bottleneck, not help you to be more productive overall.

Oliver B.
www.Tool-Wall.com
www.Hydraulic-Manifold.com

[Bobw]

Originally Posted by Ox

If it were me tho - I'd just toss it on my lathe and run complete.

(Well - maybe not the HT part... )

Wasn't Mazak talking about doing that with lasers right on the machine a few years ago? Rough turn, HT, grind, all in one shot.

[Boris]

Originally Posted by Limy Sami

Ya gotta be firm,...... I like to think of myself as a traditionalist in theses matters.,.. so.

Get your oversee-er a longer whip....... steel tips cut in nicely.

Gee up your pacemaker - think Buddy Rich.

Make it clear, if they aren't producing they won't be eating.

Nice to see the old ways are still alive and kicking

Personally I prefer screwing their boots to the floor in front of the machine so they wont be tempted to wander off.


Although the above is a bit of joking (I'd never screw their boots to the floor in reality*)
The return on investment will by and large be determined by the efficiency at which the machine is operated, which boils down to the quality of the staff.
Even if you go with the 'more staff, no machines option' it boils down to the quality of the staff.

So for one I'd definetly look into your staffing,to see what skill level you need from them
eg buying a 5 axis mill/turn wont make you any money without people to program and set the thing.

Boris

*No I put them in leg irons and chain them to the machines ..... . another day, another human rights violation

[surplusjohn]

Tool Wall, I like the holding concept, very clever.

[Joe788]

Originally Posted by Bobw

Wasn't Mazak talking about doing that with lasers right on the machine a few years ago? Rough turn, HT, grind, all in one shot.

Like this Bob:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV6WdQIyh7I

[StreetSpeed]

Craaaaaaaaaaazy. Though that can only be case-hardening right?

[rj newbould]

That's gotta be right, Speed...

[Revelstone]

First thing you have to do is lay out your TAKT time. Take your orders and figure
out how much machine time is needed. Your TAKT time is the number parts you
have to produce an hour per day to make your shipping orders per month. Any one operation can not exceed your TAKT time. If it does the operation has to be split up or machines added. You should first look at machine utilization.

[StreetSpeed]

I'll bite. What does TAKT stand for?

[oceanpout]

A Freind of mine got talked into a multi axis machine by a sweet talking salesman and under qualified personel! Base price like 300,000 +- whatever all the milling heads and chucks and collet nose ect. ect. like 500,000. Every setup needs special this special that. It takes a few days to get tweeked in. It uses an unbelievable amount of way lube ! Worst part is when its milling its not turning when its turning its not milling . Some times technoligy does not always ramp up thruput. But commonsense surely can. Best of luck.

[WILLEO6709]

Originally Posted by StreetSpeed

I'll bite. What does TAKT stand for?

its an expression taken from the Japanese/ Deming Kaizen ( rapid continuous improvement) system. Takt Time is calculated as tin this example:
daily required output= 480 pieces
basic workday - 8 hours= 480 minutes
work breaks- 30 minutes( 2 x 15 min paid breaks)
cleanup allowance - 10 minutes
net workday - 440 minutes
net workday/required output= takt time
takt = 0.91666 minutes = 55 seconds per part

to make your required output in the takt time in the desired workday with no overtime mix, match, move ops to balance the ops in all machines to lower the complete cycle. Its about getting parts to ship every day and not incompleted parts that can't be sold yet.

thats takt time in a nutshell.