New Mill/Turn on the Market

[Ox]

The Krauts are at it aggin.

The new Index R200 looks to be a somewhat simplified version of a "can doo it all" bar machine from what I can see. I find no video of it yet either on Youtube or the Index site.

I don't understand why these places go to all the R&D and then a big ad campaign and not have a video up as soon as the news is released?

I wunna SEE how it werks! (werkes? )

Of course a ballpark price would be nice, but I s'pose yuh gotta call Indy to git that.

(Sure hope it's cheaper than their Swiss! )


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[psychomill]

I was just looking at that machine this morning.... in a magazine that is. that's a gnarly set up...

[dabigguy]

Wow, wild machine. Guess enginneering could send down any print now and there would be no excuses of way it cant be done. If anyone finds the price on it post it could you?

[SwissPro]

That's an interesting layout. I'm sure every builder has given some thought to building a twin head machine like that but the cost is a show stopper.

I appreciate all the talk about how the kinematics result in exceptional stiffness. But I have to wonder about thermal displacement. The sub side has a vertical X-axis and it's carrying the entire weight of the sub spindle. Plus the hot chips from the upper head are falling all over the lower head. I would think scales are a must with that layout. Or maybe it's also an LM machine? Even if it is, there would be loads of heat from the linear motors to deal with.

Then there is the chip to chip time. I'd like to see that tool changer in action, but the Rube Goldberg nature of it doesn't look super fast on paper.

I also noticed that over time they've figured out that moving the center of rotation on the B-axis closer to the tool spindle face makes for a more accurate machine. Now if they would just give up entirely on the idea of hanging tools off of the side of it they would have a more open tool zone. What do you save with that anyway? In the real world you are better off using tool spindle indexing and a multi-turn or multifunction holder if the goal is to save tool changes and cycle time.

But all in all it's pretty nifty. I'm guessing $850,000.00 plus options. But at the end of the day any multifunction lathe can make any part that this thing can. If they haven't bunged up the tool change time, this machine might have a cycle time advantage on the right kind of part. But that's about it.

[cnctoolcat]

I'm guessing $850,000.00 plus options.

For that kind of coin, a man could set 2 similarly-sized Mazak Integrexes on his shop floor.

Now, tell me what's going to put more money in the bank: 2 Integrexes, or 1 Index?

[SwissPro]

Which would make more money depends on what you're doing I suppose. You are also assuming the Mazak can hold the same tolerances that the Index can which isn't a given either. I've put Tsugami TMA8's in where the Integrex wasn't accurate enough for the application based on extensive testing by the customer. So the Mazak being the less expensive of the two machines wouldn't have made them any money given it couldn't do the job.

That being said, I'm just guessing on price and based on the limited info available on the Index, I would be interested in how they are dealing with thermal displacement. Being German I'd bet that they have some overly complex, well engineered scheme in place.

And I would much rather play with the Index than the Mazak, much in the same way I'd rather take a Maybach for a spin over a Camry.

[barbter]

Ox,
I would ask a price for you (as I'm over here in 'EuroLand'), but if I contacted them I'd never get rid of them

For anyone whose looked at it, the better piccy's are in the brochure here
http://www.index-werke.de/mediadata/r200-0040e.pdf

To me, the rails don't look that big for something that has gravity going against it.
I bet it won't take a knock and cost the price of a straight 2axis to put right if it gets one!
German engineering isn't what it was. They all chase price down now-adays. DMG's are lightening fast but light weight from what I've seen (lathe and mills), and I believe their CTX machines were made by the Italians (Grazziano) who also made a range of lathes for Leadwell.
But I can't see how this can hold real tight limits without having a conventional turret. 'Wobbly heads' are all well and good for getting into awkward places and generating side clearances for milling, but backlash and repeatability are your enemy with this design.
As it is fundamentally a lathe, I think it at least needs a turret...

[cnctoolcat]

You are also assuming the Mazak can hold the same tolerances that the Index can which isn't a given either. I've put Tsugami TMA8's in where the Integrex wasn't accurate enough for the application based on extensive testing by the customer.

Assuming all high-end cnc's utilize high-end ballscrews, guides, servos, drives, etc., then I would think almost any accuracy issues would arise from thermal drift, which is a concern with any of the fancy turn-mills on the market.

All but the smallest Mazak Integrex's has a larger work envelope than the Tsunami TMA8, thus the potential for accuracy differences. Smaller machines are easier to make more accurate than larger ones...

On another note about the Index: I cannot stand to see linear guides exposed in the cutting zone of a machine tool! It seems the Germans are doing this a lot! I guess they like the idea of the big service call every few years to replace guides worn out by chip infiltration.

[Ox]

I'll git a price in Sept.

I jist kant imagine eny point in releasing it if it's enywhere close to the $ that Swissy mentioned.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

[bryan_machine]

So, the fixed tools on the side of the paired B-heads do get a sort of "frankenstein weirdness" award. But some of the photos (and common sense) suggest that they're a crash waiting to happen.

But I guess they allow a certain parallelism - you scrape metal off the ends of the ways while at the same time drilling a whole in the workpiece...

[vmcman]

Cool machine. Index always has great ideas.

[SimonK]

go check this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4vLqfIx8X8

also available as a TWIN spindle head.