Weiler Commador rumbling gearbox

[peterve]

I recently bought a Weiler Commodor 7,5Kw The gearbox makes a rumbling sound
When you disengage the clutch the sound changes a bit but still bad
I think it is a bent tooth on a gear. I had that on a Poreba too once and a new gear solved the problem
I havn't got a chance to listen to several speeds
But I opened up the gearbox and looked at the gears but till now I found no damage on any of the teeth
Also the splines look to be in good shape

Any body got a clue

Peter from Holland

[SAG 180]

Ball bearing failure on one of the shafts?

[peterve]

Originally Posted by SAG 180

Ball bearing failure on one of the shafts?

I hope so because that would be the easy way out
Another possibility I thought of is a bent shaft
If I have time tomorrow or today I make a video of it with sound


Peter from Holland

[viilari]

I have my Hembrug DR1 strange rumbling sound when use low spindle speeds.
Reason is aluminium chips in backgear oil reservoir,i clean oil reservoir and
change new oil,now runs smooth.

[peterve]

Here is a movie with sound of the rumbling ratling what ever you want to call it
Any ideas ???
www.veltmanmachines.nl/diverse/Movieweiler.MPG


Peter from Holland

[Kees]

It is simple, there are only 2 sources: bearings and gears.The sound is equal with the speed which is most likely caused by a gear.With a bit of luck it could be a bearing with the housing for the rolling parts missing, I had that once.
I asume this lathe has all the drive-parts in the mainhead, so you must be able to found where the sound is coming from.(main spindle, incoming axel or shift axis).
Is the sound also there when the motor is running, but the main spindle not ?(in free position)And if the lathe is running backwards?

[peterve]

Originally Posted by Kees

It is simple, there are only 2 sources: bearings and gears.The sound is equal with the speed which is most likely caused by a gear.With a bit of luck it could be a bearing with the housing for the rolling parts missing, I had that once.
I asume this lathe has all the drive-parts in the mainhead, so you must be able to found where the sound is coming from.(main spindle, incoming axel or shift axis).
Is the sound also there when the motor is running, but the main spindle not ?(in free position)And if the lathe is running backwards?

Yes I assume a gear too but it can be a PITA to find the right one

It looks like the sound is worse this time I ran it More noise is in fact a good thing because it indicates a bigger damage which is easier to find
Looking/hearing the movie ones more it seems the nocking sound is in ritme with the speed of the spindle which could indicate it is a gear on the main spindle

peter from holland

[DannyW]

Peter,

I can clearly hear a pair of gears that constantly want to mesh but are hindered to do so.
Could be in the gearbox for the feeds.
Can you touch the selector levers and feel if there is any rattle to them?
Could be a sheared key or bent fork that hinders in proper mesh.

As I said, feel around on the levers and gently put pressure on them left and right.
If you don't feel the rattle in the levers it lies deeper.

Should be taken apart in any case.

Good luck and good hunting.

Danny

[Arno]

Originally Posted by peterve

Here is a movie with sound of the rumbling ratling what ever you want to call it
www.veltmanmachines.nl/diverse/Movieweiler.MPG

I cannot hear as the QT jumps to the end after 1 second.
Even rebooted my system. No change.

[peterve]

Arno
It works great on this end And I am no expert on computeraffairs so cant help you much

The rumbling lathe now
I took it apart and found out the brake was not quit releasing fully
I have to rebuild it but I have just the drawing of the 4.5Kw version which has a different brake as this 7.5kw
And a couple of bolts are greenloctited So I have to heat them at a college because I don`t have a suited torch
Also checked all bearings and other components All fine

But that does not seem to be the problem I propelled the ingoing shaft with a drilling machine and still heard the rumbling Not that loud though
I could determen the sound to a single pair of gears
I took one shaft out and checked the pinion gear Z=15 Modul 3 it seems but with a OD of 53 mm 2 mm bigger as supposed to
I measured over 2 teeth and found only 0,02 to 0,03mm difference Also no or just very very minor damages

I also put the gear in the lathe between centers and had another gear which I had lying around , put on some stock and a bronze bearing Then placed it in the toolholder of the lathe and rotated the assembly
Even when I reduced the clearance between the 2 gears to zero the gears meshed just fine

So the only thing I can think of now is to take the second gear out and also place it on the lathe meshing with the other But probably they will just run great because I see no damage or anything on them
Also it might just be the brake

I don`t mind getting a new gear as long as I am sure that solves the problem

Peter from Holland

[DannyW]

Hi Peter,

Could it be that the lathe had a crash while someone engaged the screwcutting feed while the spindle was turning rapidly, and ran into something?
Can you determine if the noise comes from the headstock or the feeds gearbox?
Does the leadscrew or feedscrew have axial play? Do they function properly?
Are there any gears in the headstock that have, umm... how do you call them ... teeth on the sides that rub against each other, but should mesh, though can't?

Can we have a look at what you're seeing in there?

Danny

[peterve]

Originally Posted by DannyW

Hi Peter,



Could it be that the lathe had a crash while someone engaged the screwcutting feed while the spindle was turning rapidly, and ran into something?
Can you determine if the noise comes from the headstock or the feeds gearbox?
Does the leadscrew or feedscrew have axial play? Do they function properly?
Are there any gears in the headstock that have, umm... how do you call them ... teeth on the sides that rub against each other, but should mesh, though can't?

The noise is from the headstock not from the feeds gearbox
When disengadged the sound is still there
The video is taken with the feeds of if I remember correctly

Can we have a look at what you're seeing in there?

Danny

The noise is from the headstock not from the feeds gearbox
When disengadged the sound is still there
The video is taken with the feeds of if I remember correctly
I will make another video tomorrow if I remember to take along the camera from my wife Mine is one without video

Also checked and the teeth are not rubbing teeth on the side

Peter from Holland

[DannyW]

Peter,

Can you gently "feel" around with a prybar?
Some bearing has to be damaged then. If there isn't any damage to be found that is plainly visible on the gears, or rubbing. Right?

Danny

[peterve]

Originally Posted by DannyW

Peter,

Can you gently "feel" around with a prybar?
Some bearing has to be damaged then. If there isn't any damage to be found that is plainly visible on the gears, or rubbing. Right?

Danny

Don that already All bearings are fine
I even took out the oil pump because it was driven by that incomming shaft
The sound is so severe my first impression was it had to be something major and easy visable
I hope it turns out to be the brake but I have doubts

Peter from Holland

[DannyW]

Originally Posted by peterve

I hope it turns out to be the brake but I have doubts

Peter from Holland

Interesting!
When the brake is applied, is there a mechanism that separates a part of the gear train?
So the mass of all the parts still connected is lower for stopping the spindle more quickly.
And in your situation a simple return spring is broken or has not enough force anymore, and the "tooth and groove" coupling make that awful rumbling noise?
I'm just thinking out loud here .. hehe.

Danny

[peterve]

Well it is the brake is not assembled properly It is not disengaged properly
So first I am going to fix it that it does not engage That is a optional setting anyway We see from there on

Peter from Holland

[peterve]

The brake is no problem anymore
I had disassembled the 2 gears I thought were the bad ones
Not much wrong with it So I reassemled it all with the now properly working brake But still a lott of rumbling
So I checked all once more and found out I had the wrong gears

The ones which I now think are the bad ones are on the mainshaft and the 3th shaft. I did inspect them visualy but no damages what so ever
The one on the mainshaft I could measure over 3 or 4 teeth but no significant differences
Now I have disassembled the mainshaft and took out the gear
Next step wil be to disassemble the other gear on the 3th shaft
Then make a setup on the lathe to have them both rotating meshing
Perhaps I can find where the rumbling comes from and if I can correct it

I have a price for both the gears That is about €1350,-
It is all of a slow proces because it has to be done in between all kind of other affaires
I made some pics and will post some

Peter from Holland