Weiler LZ280 (?) opinions asked

[Frans Nieuwerth]

Hello,

I am considering to buy a used Weiler lathe, I suspect it to be an LZ280.
It looks rather complete, for a low price, originating from an educational institute in the Netherlands (according to the seller).
I'll try to add some pictures later.

I am looking for opinions on this specific lathe. I currently have a genuine Emco Compact 8 (from the later 70s), and want this new lathe to be the next step in size, quality and functions. Would the LZ280 be the right choice for it?
I am using it for Live Steam construction in 3½" gauge currently.

Looking for feedback, what to look for in defects for this specific lathe, etc.
Especially from the dutch readers on this forum. Also looking for a (softcopy) of the user manuals, language is not important.

Thanks,
Frans

[Erik]

Hi Frans.
I suspect member "Yoyo" from NL will post soon. He has a Weiler LZ280
and he shows it off on his website. Search for member "Yoyo" and in one of
his postings you'll fin the address of his website. I was looking for a nice
280 a few years ago, but ended up with a fine Primus instead. Smaller in
capacity, modern square in appearance and like new.

Cheers
Erik

PS: Hmm, I just checked. The link to his website doesn't work anyhmore.
We'll have to wait and see, if he pops up.

[yoyo]

Frans already reached me by mail. My site has moved to www.metalworker.eu I tried to forward all links but obviously missed one.
I heard the early Emco's are not bad either, although I have no personal experience on that lathe.
I can't think of any special thing to look at with the weiler. All the usual points like bedwear, backlash, vibrations etc apply. I think these lathes are generally not used as production machines. They were more found in toolrooms and educational centres. The ones from educational centres are sometimes badly abused.
My general feeling is that it's a smooth lathe and a pleasure to work with.
After working with a 10ee the main difference is the lack of rigidity. Which offcoarse is not very surprising for a lathe that is a little more then a third of the weight of a Monarch.
Almost all special weiler LZ280 tooling is popping up on German ebay once a year. Prices are not cheap but they are also not in heaven like the Deckel/Singer tooling.

[Erik]

Arjan,

almost anything is a step up from a Compact 8. It has no backgear, so the lowest RPM is about 120. And using belts only, it has no pulling power. No feeds gearbox, just back gears. The EMCO MAT7 and 8 plus especially the MAXIMAT10 are much better in this size.

Unfortunately, maybe because it's so simple, it's the one the chinese started to copy.

The small Weiler LZ220 is a really great little lathe, way above a compact 8. Remember, I never got that 280. And you're right, since so many 280's were built, stuff for the 280 pops up in the bay all the time. But nothing at all for the Primus, though.

Frans, remember to get some backplates with a spanner ring, so it won't come off, when you stop the main spindle.

Cheers
Erik

[yoyo]

Originally Posted by Erik

Frans, remember to get some backplates with a spanner ring, so it won't come off, when you stop the main spindle.

That is indeed a very good tip regarding the lz280. Especially a 160 mm chuck or a faceplate with something heavy mounted will come off sooner then you like.
It is possible to convert the normal backplates in a relative simple way but it's better to buy just the ones with safety ring.
Frans your welcome to make some chips on my lathe in order to get the feeling of an LZ280.

[northernsinger]

I own an LZ 280 (and also two other Weiler lathes, one of which, an LZ 330, I use) but have never used it and it may be a junker. I hope to try it out next winter and am looking for parts if they can be had without too much adventure.

[Frans Nieuwerth]

Thanks for your responses.
I've updated my profile, as requested. I thought I had supplied that already in the past.

The LZ280 has been sold shortly before I wanted to buy it, unfortunately.
The asking price was ± 1200 euro (with a damaged DRO, but many tools and parts included).
Your responses have helped me in what to look for, and to Yoyo 'thanks for the additional private information'.

Frans

[harmenjan]

I have never seen a spanner ring backplate. Could someone please enlighten me? A picture would be much appreciated. I would be very interested in the conversion Yoyo mentioned. Should be interesting for a lot of people. I have a Leinen lathe with a M45 x 4,5 threaded spindlenose for which I need to make some additional backplates and possibly convert the existing one. I would like them to stay on the machine a bit better than the one I am using now

Regards,
Harmen

[Piek]

The ring is a loose fit round the back plate. Upon fastening the allen bolt the back plate's rear end is tightened around the register of the spindle nose, thus preventing accidental unscrewing.
The 3-jaw is the original 125 mm. that came with the lathe.

[yoyo]

The safety ring that came with my weiler functions in a different way.
There are three holes in the backplate of the chuck perpendicular to the axis of the mainspindle. In these holes are three bronze pins. The spanner ring pushes the pins onto the mainspindle.



Option A points at a set screw (Allen type) that pushes a bronze pin on the spindle and with the reaction force the other two pins are also pushed on the spindle. Now the chuck can not come off because the locked bronze pins prevent it from rotating on the spindle.



I think it is also possible to use the ring Piek has because if this ring is around the pins and clamped together all three bronze pins will be pushed on the spindle too. (indicated at option B)

I don't know if it's a good solution to make slits in the chuck backplate. I am afraid it does not contribute to the precision of the chuck when the register surface is cut in two. Although I'm sure it's very safely attached to the spindle.

The bronze pins in the drawing are straight and can fall out of the holes when the chuck is taken off the spindle.
I believe in reality they are mounted a bit more sophisticated with a spring.
This spring pulls the pins of the spindle when the pressure is released.

[peterve]

If the chuck has a good fit I now for sure Pieks way without the slits works

I tried to remove one once without loosening the Allen screw, so I know

Peter

[harmenjan]

Thanks a lot to all of you for the information and pictures. Great help.
Inspired by your replies, I just found out that my backplate has a conical i.d. ring that can be bolted to its back. Much like Piek's contraption, but without the slits in the threaded part. I suppose tightening the bolts will force the ring on the conical o.d. threaded part of the backplate, thus applying a radial force towards the spindle tread. Lacking the slits however, I doubt whether it will generate enough force to clamp the spindle tread firmly enough. I'll give it a try but most likely wil convert to one of the suggested solutions.

Regards
Harmen

[drylakemachine]

Hi. Before you tighten up that tighting ring besure there are jacking holes to get it off!!!!!!!

[harmenjan]

Thanks,good advice! I think I will drill and tap some holes in the ring to be able to push it off against the backplate. I will let you know if it all works.

Unfortunately I need to solve some problems with the spindle bearings first(posted in antique Machinery forum)...

[Frans Nieuwerth]

After starting this thread last year the machine discussed was sold before I could buy it.

However last month, I was able to find another one and purchase it !!
This was a reasonable complete copy, with 3-jaw, 4-jaw, Collets, quick-change toolpost, etc.
Not too clean, but that is easily fixed.

According to the info in the electrical switchbox (added in 1992), the machine was owned originally by the education training center of what is now Corus, steel mills, in IJmuiden (formerly Hoogovens), the Netherlands.

Some problems exist with it:
1. The machine is painted a couple of time during the years including parts that shouldn't have been painted, like the handwheels.
Also some of the oil-nipples have disappeared somewhere under the paint.
I would appreciate some detailed pictures of an LZ280N (no vario speed), to find out which parts are supposed to be blank and which are painted.

2. The 3-jaw has indeed a safety ring as described above, with the backplate being slitted.
The 4-jaw, being much larger at 200 mm (I think) doesn't have anything like that. Should I slit the backplates of that as well? Don't want the risk of the 4-jaw running loose!

3. The first thread on the spindle nose is a little damaged. Should I clean that up with a needle file, to protect the accessoiries or shouldn't I bother?

I will post some pictures when the machine is in some reasonable state.

Frans

[yoyo]

I don't know if there is much difference with the vario speed regarding the painting. I can take some pics how mine is done, just PM your email and I can send them to you

I don't know if you should slit the back plate of the chuck. I have indeed seen chucks that had these slits but I think you needlesly compromise the runout and concentricity of the chuck.
For securing there only need to be three holes in the chuck itself. Then the ring around the chuckmounting is slitted, maybe you can use the one from the three jaw chuck. Or make one yourself. It should be possible as you have a decent lathe now
I certainly would consider using one. My faceplate has no locking option and once came off when I was cutting on the backside in reverse.


When the spindlethread abuses the internal chuckthread it's better to do something about it

[peterve]

Originally Posted by yoyo

I don't know if there is much difference with the vario speed regarding the painting. I can take some pics how mine is done, just PM your email and I can send them to you

I don't know if you should slit the back plate of the chuck. There only need to be three holes in it. The ring is slitted, maybe you can use the one from the three jaw chuck. Or make one yourself. It should be possible as you have a decent lathe now
I certainly would consider using one. My faceplate has no locking option and once came off when I was cutting on the backside in reverse.


When the spindlethread abuses the internal chuckthread it's better to do something about it

Hello Yoyo Frans
Please believe me, if the fit is like it should be you really need no slitting or holes
The ring will shrink the backplate a couple of 0,01mm easaly and lock the chuck that way

If the fit is to sloppy you have to make a new backplate anyway
The cilindrical part is where the chuck should fit




Peter from Holland

[Frans Nieuwerth]

Thanks for your replies. I will research the fit on the 4-jaw chuck.

I did find some detailed pictures on the german eBay for an LZ280 yesterday.
But in case you have more, I would appreciate that.

A more serious problem is that I started to remove some of the levers, to clear up the messy paint jobs.
Most went successfully back, however with the double axle levers on the quick change box for the feed control (left-0-right plus A-B-C speeds) I ran into a problem when reassembling.
The notches on the end of the A-B-C lever do not seem to engage inside the quick change box anymore. I don't see how to I can align them.
The only way I see to fix this is to remove the whole quick change box to align the lever-axle from the inside/backside. I am not sure whether this is a wise thing to do??
What risks would I run to remove the leadspindel and the feed box??

Thanks again,
Frans