Aluminum Endmill Throwdown!! Destiny vs. Niagara vs. Gorilla vs. 2nd Shift Grinding

Hey Folks,



So I had a large aluminum job (for me anyway) I was in the middle of so I decided I wanted to see what was out there that was gonna remove aluminum the quickest. The catch, is that I have 4 Haas VMCs at my shop, and while it’s nice that the big red sticker on the side says “20 HP” they’re actually rated closer to 10(ish) for continuous usage. It’ll put out 20hp for about 2 minutes, right before it explodes.

When I’m buying endmills for a specific job, I tend to use Niagara. I get a good deal on them, and they seem to last awhile and perform better than most other tools. They also list speeds and feeds for tons of various materials, and they’re generally spot on and not inflated in order to simply sell more tools. They’re also not exactly the cheapest tool out there, but you usually get what you pay for.

I ran the following .500” tools in 6061. .500” DOC, 95% step over, in a circular spiral pocketing cycle so the load meter would stay consistent and allow me to mess around. I adjusted the feed so that the load meter would stay consistent at 100%. Sure I coulda cranked it up to 150% or more, but I tend to try and keep things at 100%. Same tool holders, same gauge length. I was not at all concerned with tool life, so these weren’t long tests. I was simply trying to see which tool would make best use of my limited horsepower. I ran the tools at 2 speeds, and the lower speed yielded the best results. Love that Haas torque curve. Here are the results.



Niagara A345, TiCn Coating, $52 ea. ($69 list price) –
10,000 RPM 78.6 ipm 7500 RPM 103 ipm
MRR - 25.75 HP – 6.4


Destiny Tools Viper, “Stealth” coating (Moly-S), $46 ea -
10,000 RPM 67.5 ipm 7500 RPM 89 ipm
MRR- 22.25 ci/min HP – 5.5
Bonus points awarded for coolest endmill name

Gorilla Silverback, ZrN coating, $45 ea -
10,000 RPM 94ipm 7500 RPM 121 ipm
MRR - 30.25 ci/min HP – 7.5
Bonus bling points for gold ZrN coating


2nd Shift Grinding, Unocoated, $39 ea.
10,000 RPM 62 ipm 7500 RPM 82 ipm
MRR- 20.5 ci/min HP- 5.125



So there it is. In this case, Gorilla was the clear winner. Now if I actually had some power to play with, these tests may be completely different. The Niagara and Destiny tools make claims of .009 ipt for a full slot, where Gorilla makes no such claims. Highest I got was .0054 ipt with the Gorilla. Would the thing snap with a high chip load? I don’t know, and at this point with my machines it doesn’t much matter. But the Gorilla smoked the other tools hands down, it’s the cheapest, plus it’s a sexy gold color which the ladies love. Just perhaps something to consider next time you’re looking for an efficient cutter for aluminum. Now, I have a Mazak salesman coming in an hour or so, so maybe before long I’ll do these tests all over again on a REAL machine.

Price on the second shift tool grinding tool was $39.

Thanks for doing the test Mark!

If you do some more testing, don't forget about SGS S-carb three flute...my favorite. Since you're about to talk about a Mazak, for your reference, my Mazak 510C (25hp nameplate) can do 100-110 CIM with the spindle load just below 100%

That's some nice data to see SS, please keep this kind of stuff coming.

Geez, now I'm curious about that Gorilla mill. Does it have a clearly different design than the other ones or do you think it was the coating that made it work better?

Paul T.

PaulT said:

That's some nice data to see SS, please keep this kind of stuff coming.

Geez, now I'm curious about that Gorilla mill. Does it have a clearly different design than the other ones or do you think it was the coating that made it work better?

Paul T.

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I believe it is the only tool in the bunch that varies both helical angle and pitch angle over the length of the cutter. Niagara's tool used a 45 degree helix angle. Destiny's tool I am not familiar with (never held on in my hands) so I can't say for certain what they are doing other than it appears they employ a double chip break.

The Moly-S coating is said to have a significantly lower coefficient of friction compared to ZrN. I've never personally run Moly-S against ZrN to see how they compare head to head but I've had great results on lower HP machines with ZrN coated tools in aluminum.

AS LONG AS YOU ARE EXPERIMENTING, TRY A IMCO STREAKER. UNLIMITED RPM & .030 PER TOOTH CHIP LOAD. I MAINLY CUT ALUMINUM AND USE THEM ALL THE TIME. ABOUT $65 FOR A 1/2". WWW.IMCOUSA.COM

For the potential best "bang for the buck" contenders I'd be curious to see how one of maritool.com's 3 flute TICN coated endmills would do.

These are intended to be cost effective rather than super metal removers as they don't have a variable helix, but at $25. for a 1/2" one, they could possibly take the best MRR per $ crown.

I use them because my machine is pretty low powered (3HP nameplate, seems like way less at the spindle) and thus I don't think has the beans to make much use of the hi-zoot endmills, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Paul T.

Hey I'm happy to test any and all tools that anyone wants me to, but I'm not gonna pay for em'. As far as I'm concerned I've found the one I'm gonna stick with for awhile. Unlimited RPM and .030 chip load sounds great on paper, but as I said, I'm limited to 7500 and 10000, and I can't get more than .005 ipt. So, I'd rather buy the slickest, freest tool at this point rather than buying a cutter that cuts like a jack hammer and needs the power and spindle to boot.

BTW, Mazak Nexus HCN4000, 40hp at 150%, 33 hp continuous. THAT would get the job done fo sho. Dude thinks you could do a base model for about $195000 in todays market. I'm flying to Tennessee on Thursday to meet with the customer that could perhaps make the machine mine. Fingers crossed.

PaulT said:

For the potential best "bang for the buck" contenders I'd be curious to see how one of maritool.com's 3 flute TICN coated endmills would do.

These are intended to be cost effective rather than super metal removers as they don't have a variable helix, but at $25. for a 1/2" one, they could possibly take the best MRR per $ crown.

I use them because my machine is pretty low powered (3HP nameplate, seems like way less at the spindle) and thus I don't think has the beans to make much use of the hi-zoot endmills, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

Paul T.

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I wonder how it would fair in a tool life test against the 4 tools StreetSpeed tested.

StreetSpeed said:

Hey I'm happy to test any and all tools that anyone wants me to, but I'm not gonna pay for em'. As far as I'm concerned I've found the one I'm gonna stick with for awhile. Unlimited RPM and .030 chip load sounds great on paper, but as I said, I'm limited to 7500 and 10000, and I can't get more than .005 ipt. So, I'd rather buy the slickest, freest tool at this point rather than buying a cutter that cuts like a jack hammer and needs the power and spindle to boot.

BTW, Mazak Nexus HCN4000, 40hp at 150%, 33 hp continuous. THAT would get the job done fo sho. Dude thinks you could do a base model for about $195000 in todays market. I'm flying to Tennessee on Thursday to meet with the customer that could perhaps make the machine mine. Fingers crossed.

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That is an awesome machine. How fast is the spindle? Good luck with the potential customer!

barbter said:

Street,
If roughing only (in ally) is what you need to do, we have had really good success with MA Ford's 3 flute knuckle form tools.
We run a 16mm dia x 12mm deep at 7500 rpm and 7000mm/min feed.
They are really good tools for low power spindles.
Boris saw it run once, and it made his hair stand on end!

On second thoughts, his hair already looked like that when he walked in our factory...

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MA Ford makes a good tool for high chiploads but tool life at higher sfm is significantly lower than some other big name manufacturers… What I don't know is whether or not the MA Ford or a Gorilla Mill would require less HP. Anyone else here in the states running MA Ford tools in aluminum interested in a test?

Levi, it's an 18,000 RPM spindle. Tis' a beast, as far as I can see. I would certainly take a look at some other machines should this thing pan out. Lot's to chose from in the the $250K segment.

Barbter, the cut you mentioned would take about 20hp, and I can't get anywhere near that with a Haas.

If you are roughing a lot in AL, I prefer the Corncob style roughers. I don't know if it's the same as the "knuckle form" tools you are refering to, but Dura Mill makes a line of very good AL roughers, called the ACR line. They get "bonus points" for bling bling ZRN gold coating too. They can really move the material in a hurry. I always like to rough with a different tool than I finish with, it helps to keep finishes and features consistent. Iscar makes a line of Click Fit mills that, if you are moving a lot of metal day in day out, they have some high shear, polished inserts that last forever in AL.

barbter said:

Street,
It may be worth trying one on the haas, because the tool takes significantly less power against a 'normal' type router cutter (like for like).
Because of the knuckle form, it breaks the chips into mince meat. (It's also good as the machine takes longer to fill up, as the swarf is smaller.)
So, if you can run at say 100ipm with a blah blah tool, you may be able to run at 150ipm with one of these?
Just a thought.

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Apples to oranges I'd say. I think in any situation where you can use a dedicated roughing tool it is better but not every application benefits from the additional MRR when you figure in tool change and having to go back in and clean it up.

Paragon_R_N_D said:

If you are roughing a lot in AL, I prefer the Corncob style roughers. I don't know if it's the same as the "knuckle form" tools you are refering to, but Dura Mill makes a line of very good AL roughers, called the ACR line. They get "bonus points" for bling bling ZRN gold coating too. They can really move the material in a hurry. I always like to rough with a different tool than I finish with, it helps to keep finishes and features consistent. Iscar makes a line of Click Fit mills that, if you are moving a lot of metal day in day out, they have some high shear, polished inserts that last forever in AL.

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The Gorilla Mill Aluminum tool in the test had a post polishing after ZrN coating. What is the price on a ZrN coated Duramill tool for aluminum? I can't get any of the Duramill guys to test their tool against the Gorilla Mill for either tough steels or aluminum

I always use the same tool for roughing and finishing (which is why I don't use roughing endmills). I've never found a roughing endmill that goes that much quicker than a non-roughing type that it'd be worth the time and expense to change/buy another tool. My parts are generally not "pretty" and finish is rarely a concern.

Also, DuraMill is right up the street from where our shop is. Good guys, and when I need a tool right now I can call and have it in 30 minutes. But, when I'm buying tools for a specific job ahead of time, I tend to go elsewhere (though I do like their WisperKuts for stainless).

I had the opportunity to try 3 different mills in my 5HP Haas VF-0. I tried the MariTool 1/2 3FL TiCN coated mill, 1/2 4FL variable flute TiAlN coated mill, and a 3/4 3FL variable flute ZrN coated endmill from exkenna (made by some outfit in NY I think).

The starting parameters were 5500rpm, 60ipm, full width slotting, .240doc in 6061.

The 3FL 1/2 would run 5500rpm at 60ipm, but it sounded like a buzzsaw, a lot of vibration. The main problem with this was the helix angle didn't pull the chips out of the slot and I had chips packing behind and chip recutting on subsequent passes. Not great, but not bad.

The 3FL 3/4 would plain not run fer crap. I had to back the motor down to 5250rpm to gain some torque, and it would only run 45ipm without making the spindle rpm bounce. It sounded like a jackhammer cutting the material, and the finish was nothing to write home about. My Shizuoka seems to like this endmill though, plows through quietly, throwing chips like mad.

The 4FL 1/2 mill was beautiful, it ran pretty smooth, the machine was just happy as a clam at 5500rpm, 60ipm. I got the feeling that I could run it at 75 to 90ipm. It gave a nice and smooth finish on my .005 finish pass. This still has a "normal" helix, but more flutes and a better geometry to evacuate chips.

I'm expecting a new contender tomorrow. It's from a guy in SoCal that my local tool grinder recommended. He makes a 3fl and 4fl, I opted for the 4fl because of the previous tests. My machine doesn't like 3fl mills. The 4fl has 2 flutes with chipbreakers and 2 flutes with finish grinds. The flute geometry is offset, the flutes are like 70/120 degrees apart, so it is going to be interesting. They aren't cheap, a 1/2" 4FL 1-1/4 LOC coated with flat is $68, but if it performs well and holds an edge for a long time, I'll be sold. The company is MNI Tool, www.mnitool.com

Perry Harrington said:

I'm expecting a new contender tomorrow. It's from a guy in SoCal that my local tool grinder recommended. He makes a 3fl and 4fl, I opted for the 4fl because of the previous tests. My machine doesn't like 3fl mills. The 4fl has 2 flutes with chipbreakers and 2 flutes with finish grinds. The flute geometry is offset, the flutes are like 70/120 degrees apart, so it is going to be interesting. They aren't cheap, a 1/2" 4FL 1-1/4 LOC coated with flat is $68, but if it performs well and holds an edge for a long time, I'll be sold. The company is MNI Tool, www.mnitool.com

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That seems very counter intuitive that you would have better results with a 4 flute tool meant for steel than 3 flute tool designed to run specifically in aluminum... You may want to give a different tool a try because at $68 ea I can beat that price by more than $20 with a superior coating for machining aluminum and a tool designed for the task... I am sure someone else like exKenna could also provide a tool designed for the task at a lower price!

Here is a tool meant for aluminum:

(This particular tool was designed to run in 7075)

Also looking at the link you provided for MNI Tool: www.mnitool.com it looks like 4 flute tools are also designed for steel...

MNI TOOL said:

- Designed for machining stainless, titanium, cast iron, carbon steel and high temperature alloys
- TiAlN coated for extremely hard metals and wear resistant

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Also keep in mind that the coating they are usually really isn't meant to be used in Aluminum...

Mike at MNI said the servos also play a factor. My machine is a 93 VF-0, has no backlash, but his comments seem to be rational. I doubt the Haas machine has a tremendous amount of damping built into the drive and table. My Shizuoka has box and wide saddle dovetail ways, with .2 pitch screws. That machine has twice as much iron in it as the Haas, so I expect it damps a bit better. I'll give Mike's tool a go and see how the machine likes it. I'm still getting acquainted with this machine, so I'm not going to rush to any conclusions.

I'm trying this cutter out at the recommendation of my local grinder, he has a lot of experience and says this guy is very sharp and knows his geometry. Agreed the price isn't cheap, but experience says the cheap tool isn't always the cheapest. If I can increase my cut speed by 50%, it's the cheaper tool. I'll report back after trying it against the MT cutters I have.

Perry Harrington said:

I'm trying this cutter out at the recommendation of my local grinder, he has a lot of experience and says this guy is very sharp and knows his geometry. Agreed the price isn't cheap, but experience says the cheap tool isn't always the cheapest. If I can increase my cut speed by 50%, it's the cheaper tool. I'll report back after trying it against the MT cutters I have.

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I am not saying the tool isn't any good... but the 4 flute tool I found on their website is specifically designed for steel and will require more hp/induce greater cutting forces when compared to a tool like the Gorilla Mill Silverback in the OP. It will also not be able to handle near the CLPT of a 3 flute tool. This I am very much certain of. The tool the OP used in the test was polished and obviously required the least HP to push compared to the other tested tools.

I understand 2fl, 3fl, and 4fl well, and I understand the coating isn't proper. However, if the machine doesn't seem to like 3FL endmills.

This machine likes the 4fl, and it was loving every minute of it. Yes, 4fl endmills are weaker than 3fl, and they have less area for chips. However, I tried a 3fl endmill exactly like the one above and it just plain sucked. The excessive pitch spacing between the variable flutes (1 big gullet and increasingly smaller) was causing the machine to vibrate badly and it ate up way more HP than a standard 2FL Al grind.

The fact is, this is a Haas VF-0 and it is what it is. I'm just trying to make the best of what I can with this machine. I'm not disappointed per say, but I'm just not used to how it works. I've been using a box/dovetail machine for the last 5 years and it's a different beast altogether. It "only" has 4HP, but it will push harder on tools bigger than 1/2 than the Haas will, and won't complain.

I couldn't run a 1/2 endmill at any rate in the older machine because a of a lack of SFM, so I used 3/4 tooling to get the SFM up. The newer machine can do the same work faster because I can get more SFM and need to remove less material to get at the part. I understand you want me to try a proper 3FL against the 4FL, and I am open to that, after I get a handle on what the 4FL will do.