Soviet Czech Lathe Chuck

Looking for some help Id-ing and sourcing a chuck for our TOS/ZPS R5 Turret Lathe. It was built in the mid-60's Soviet Czeck Republic with imperial dials (built for use in the states). The chuck's back housing is cracked so I'm on the lookout for new work holding possibilities.

I pulled the chuck off the spindle and apart. The back-plate is still useable but I'm trying to ID it's mount system in case it doesn't fit with a new chuck. Dimensionally it looks like a B2-6 size mount (short taper with holes through a flange to mount. no threads or cams to lock in place). But I'm not 100% sure. There are 6 mounting holes around the flange but they alternate threaded and unthreaded. The backplate we have had three threaded studs on the back.

I'm going to post some pics, but off hand, does anyone have experience working with these older ISO spindles? How big a deal would it be to make an adapter that uses something more current like a cam lock system? (we have lots of stuff for D1-4). A 3-jaw chuck and maybe a 4-jaw and 5c collet nose would cover everything we do.

I'm getting this lathe re-wired and cleaned up and have been impressed by how beefy and operator friendly it seems to be. No thread cutting capability but that's ok. All the work stops are easy to disengage for non-production engine lathe work. We had a heavy heavy knurling job a couple years ago and really could of used this lathe but it was in the warehouse and didn't have power run to it yet. Now it now has a piece of real-estate and power to call it's own, so I'm hoping it comes back to life so we can put it's Comm-y butt to work for us Yanks!

M.B. Naegle said:

I pulled the chuck off the spindle and apart. The back-plate is still useable but I'm trying to ID it's mount system in case it doesn't fit with a new chuck. Dimensionally it looks like a B2-6 size mount (short taper with holes through a flange to mount. no threads or cams to lock in place). But I'm not 100% sure. There are 6 mounting holes around the flange but they alternate threaded and unthreaded. The backplate we have had three threaded studs on the back.

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Sounds like an A2-6 chuck will work fine.

http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Lathe_Spindle_Mount.html

Some D1-6 chucks have the mounting bolt holes drilled all the way through so you can simply remove the cam lock pins and bolt the chuck to an A2-6 spindle nose using long bolts.

I've worked on plenty of Eastern European centre lathes but never on a turret or capstan lathe from that neck of the woods. Maybe " Herbert " and " Ward " had the market sewn up here.

I did work on " Gisholt ", " Acme ", Warner & Swasey " etc but they would all be lend-lease machines I think.

I'd like see as photo of your " TOS ". The centre lathes they made were pretty decent for the price machines.

Regards Tyrone.

Couple shots of the lathe. I've been repainting it as I've been going through it (minor thing but at least it LOOKS like I'm making progress). The original paint was heavily cracked and chipping off.

Name tag. There is a date on the coolant motor and between it and the serial number, I think this lathe was built in 1965.

Spindle face

Broken chuck. Guessing it was over tightened. I could probably patch it together, and I might until I get a replacement, but I don't expect to get any tolerance out of it.

Back plate. The three threaded studs are ridged mounted to the plate and thread into nuts behind the plate. There isn't enough headroom between the spindle flange and the headstock to push a bolt through from the other side.

M.B. Naegle said:

so we can put it's Comm-y butt to work for us Yanks!

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Czech/Slovak Republics (NOW they are..) were under Sov Bloc heel (or Hell..) aright, but I'd not class 'em as hard-core 'commie', then or now.

Regardless of politics, reasonably high-grade machine-tools .. and armaments .. have been a stock in trade for that neck of the woods for a Very Long Time Now, and still-yet, today.

ToS Svitany may still have the 'history' on what sort of chucks it was fitted for. Most Sov-Bloc lathes used either their workholding or those of the predecessor to Bison/Bial.

Czech lathe, not Polish, Russian, or Bulgarian (another nest of rather good craftsmen..) ToS goods are the more likely.

Canadian firms were the primary North American importers for any of the above. Lower tension level in the anti-anti spring-loaded position. Some may yet have a line on parts or documentation.

Bill

One other photo. The one place TOS has branded on this machine is on the base casting under the turret. Everything else, tags paperwork etc., is ZPS. I'm not familiar with how Czech industry worked back then but I'm guessing TOS made the iron and ZPS assembled and finished it off (?). I can't remember where but I seem to remember seeing a MAS logo as well. I could be wrong though as the MAS and ZPS logos have the same border shape

M.B. Naegle said:

View attachment 176576
One other photo. The one place TOS has branded on this machine is on the base casting under the turret. Everything else, tags paperwork etc., is ZPS. I'm not familiar with how Czech industry worked back then but I'm guessing TOS made the iron and ZPS assembled and finished it off (?). I can't remember where but I seem to remember seeing a MAS logo as well. I could be wrong though as the MAS and ZPS logos have the same border shape

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ToS was more than one enterprise. Not all survived to the present day. Sov-Bloc / Warsaw pact operated on a lot of 'five year' plans where work was divided among often rather distant players. The goal was 'efficiency' in eliminating the 'wasteful competition' characteristic of Capitalism.

A 'centrally planned' economy produces strange results and more bottlenecks than successes, when the planners are better politicians than planners. A major part of it was fudging the reports as badly as the plans had been, so... who did what, with which, and to whom had been lost in the mists of 'quotas' and their lies, long since.

My reading of it was that TOS was a sort of central umbrella organisation for all the separate machine tool companies in the old Czechoslovakia.

Regards Tyrone.

Studs with loose nuts at the back are a total pain for chuck mounting. If you expect to be changing chucks on any regularity and have sufficient room consider converting the machine to DIN 55027 / ISO 702/111 / BS4442 bayonet style which has a ring with keyhole slots behind for the nuts to tighten up on. Nuts stay on the studs which is much easier. Stud is double diameter with a smaller thread on a larger diameter body so the nuts are small enough to pass through the fixing holes.

Will need to make the ring in two pieces and fix together after install which will need a bit of creativity but effort should be worth it if you need to swop chucks on a fairly regular basis.

Tyrone

I always though of TOS as a state sponsored version of Elliott!

Clive

Clive603 said:

Tyrone

I always though of TOS as a state sponsored version of Elliott!

Clive

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I wouldn't have the cheek to put UK built Elliot lathes in the same sentence as TOS, .that said some of Elliots Eastern bloc stuff was as good as TOS.

P.S. I'm a TOS fan

Limy Sami said:

I wouldn't have the cheek to put UK built Elliot lathes in the same sentence as TOS, .that said some of Elliots Eastern bloc stuff was as good as TOS.

P.S. I'm a TOS fan

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I like " TOS " machines as well although some of their Hor Bores weren't great.

The little " Elliot " Omnispeed was a decent lathe.

I nearly had a job with " Elliot " in the mid 1970's Sami. I went for an interview at their showrooms but I managed to talk myself out of it !

They had quite a few foreign brands in their showrooms at that time.

Regards Tyrone.

We've got an Elliot surface grinder in our shop. It perpetually leaks oil but still runs well regardless. Elliot stuff doesn't seem to be common here in the states.
I've seen a number of big TOS lathes (oilfield and mining), but not much of everything else they make.
The rarest Euro machine tool we have in our shop is our Induma horizontal (Italian). It's in storage at the moment and seems like a good quality machine, but It's teetering on the border of "Worth fixing it up" and "Too many problems, Not enough support."


With the Lathe, I'm going to check the A2-6 mount dimensions as that looks like it might be the most bolt-on friendly solution.

M.B. Naegle said:

We've got an Elliot surface grinder in our shop. It perpetually leaks oil but still runs well regardless. Elliot stuff doesn't seem to be common here in the states.
I've seen a number of big TOS lathes (oilfield and mining), but not much of everything else they make.
The rarest Euro machine tool we have in our shop is our Induma horizontal (Italian). It's in storage at the moment and seems like a good quality machine, but It's teetering on the border of "Worth fixing it up" and "Too many problems, Not enough support."


With the Lathe, I'm going to check the A2-6 mount dimensions as that looks like it might be the most bolt-on friendly solution.

Click to expand...

I worked on an " Elliot " surface grinder as a young guy. This one had a switch position were the table went from corner to corner as well the normal surface grinder feed pattern, a bit disconcerting really.

" TOS " lathes and milling machines are decent machines for the money.

" Induma " were decent milling machines back in the day but spare parts will be a big problem now.

Regards Tyrone.