Need help with steel alloy identification, high P carbon steel?

Cole2534 · Feb 22, 2017

I have some 4" pipe of 1928 vintage that doesn't align with any steel alloy I'm aware of so i thought I'd ask y'all.

I had chemical property tests performed and this segment nearly nails AISI1010 with the exception of it's phosphorus content - 0.12%. That's triple what 1010 allows for, 0.04%. This chemistry issue also manifests itself in the pipe's hardness 72HRB, vs the 60HRB of 1010.

Any ideas of it is?

sfriedberg · Feb 22, 2017

Is this commodity pipe, as for building drains and the like? If so, the high phosphorus is not intentional, except in the sense that they didn't bother to reduce it as the spec didn't call for anything better. Also, truly steel, or cast iron?

Mark Rand · Feb 22, 2017

Crappy metal, made out of what was in the blast furnace that day.

TDegenhart · Feb 22, 2017

Could be Bessemer acid refractory steel.

Tom

johnoder · Feb 22, 2017

4" could easily be cast iron sewer pipe - and centrifugal cast iron pipe was typically 0.7 to 0.9 % P

Per Johnson's Materials of Construction, 8th edition, 1947

Milland · Feb 22, 2017

Would it really be cast iron if all it has is .1% carbon? Usually it's around 2.5 to 4% C to be cast iron.

Cole2534 · Feb 22, 2017

It's definitely steel pipe, it came from a natural gas transmission line that was laid in 1928. We don't have any MTR's on that segment but we knew it was brittle so I decided to have the tests run to see exactly what we had.
Chemical analysis is as follows-

Carbon - 0.08
Manganese - 0.47
Phosphorus - 0.12
Sulfur - 0.036
Silicon - 0.001
Nickel - 0.01
Chromium - 0.007
Molybdenum - 0.001
Vanadium - 0.002
Copper - 0.02
Niobium - 0.001
Titanium - >0.001
Iron - 99.2%

gbent · Feb 22, 2017

You have to judge the steel by the specifications in place at that time. Physical properties would be interesting. Was this line gas welded or Dresser coupled?

Milland · Feb 22, 2017

A webpage with info on the effects of phosphorous on steels: Effect of Phosphorus on the Properties of Carbon Steels: Part One :: Total Materia Article

May not identify what you have, but at least gives context for why it's there.

Cole2534 · Feb 23, 2017

gbent said:
You have to judge the steel by the specifications in place at that time. Physical properties would be interesting. Was this line gas welded or Dresser coupled?

Gas welded.

The tensile specimen of pipe pulled apart at roughly 60ksi with 29% elongation while the specimen pulled across the weld joint failed at 53ksi and 10% elongation.

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gbent · Feb 23, 2017

It doesn't look like the parent metal is brittle. Those physical numbers wouldn't make x52, but they are pretty close. Elongation looks good.

It does show some remarkable improvements in welding technology since that line was installed. I wonder what the weld joint numbers would look like if it was welded with today's fillers and an arc welder? I have never used an acetylene generator, but have heard several stories from those who have. I can't imagine the hassle of welding cross country pipe lines with acetylene generators.

DDoug · Feb 23, 2017

Very interesting (the pull numbers)

What pressure was this pipeline operated at ?

Cole2534 · Feb 23, 2017

Operates at 199psi, Maximum allowable is 250.

Dave G. · Feb 23, 2017

Cole2534 said:
Gas welded.

The tensile specimen of pipe pulled apart at roughly 60ksi with 29% elongation while the specimen pulled across the weld joint failed at 53ksi and 10% elongation.

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It's API 5L Grade B pipe - UTS 60 ksi, Yld 35 ksi, and 23% Elong (all mins)

Your pipe is likely Bessemer steel. The process did not remove phos very well. Note that there are no deoxidizing elements (Si or Al) so this was either rimmed or capped steel. Today's replacements will have Si and Al

Cole2534 · Feb 24, 2017

Dave G. said:
It's API 5L Grade B pipe - UTS 60 ksi, Yld 35 ksi, and 23% Elong (all mins)

Your pipe is likely Bessemer steel. The process did not remove phos very well. Note that there are no deoxidizing elements (Si or Al) so this was either rimmed or capped steel. Today's replacements will have Si and Al

What's the bold portion mean? I'm not too keen on steel production.

Thanks for the help!

Cole2534 · Feb 24, 2017

Here we are welding on it.

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DDoug · Feb 24, 2017

Interesting thread, so it was originally gas welded......

Was reading an old welding book last night, and it had a section
on "pressure gas welding" showing a set up very similar to a modern
plastic pipe fusion machine, but with oxy acetylene torches.

The book mentioned welding of piping from 2" to 12" diameter, this
was around the time of your pipeline.

Gas Pressure Welding - YouTube

DDoug · Feb 24, 2017

Interesting picture as well.

The pipe looks just like new.

I see at least 3 welding machine ground clamps, I see that in a new
piping firing line gang, but this appears only (1) person at a time.

How come there's no snow ?......

Cole2534 · Feb 24, 2017

What is snow?

I count 2 grounds and their ground widget, I dunno what they call it. At that instant we had 1 guy burning rod, when sewing up that pumpkin both guys were burning.

That line is in service, at pressure, btw.

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DDoug · Feb 24, 2017

Cole2534 said:
What is snow?

FWIW I watched our local gas supplier do a hot tap 2 weeks ago,
during a pretty good snow storm.

It was a 12" main, with 20 psi on it. I would have thought some preheat would have been done, but they didn't do anything.

They did use a rod oven like you have in your picture, and they
did x-ray the saddle welds afterwards.

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Need help with steel alloy identification, high P carbon steel?

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