I am sure it has been covered "but" gunna throw it out anyway. We have VMCs in need of good quality water soluble cutting fluid with "no smell". The crap we use now is out. Looked at the Valcool stuff but you tell me. We are in 95% Al but will run about everything from lead to all breeds of steels.

Do we need to add a skimmer, oxygen pump, or anything special to maximize our coolant life and minimize the odor? Thanks guys.

I switched to Hangsterfers S500 and I am really happy with it. It doesn't rot like all the other coolants I have tried. I've used 3 or 4 types of Rustlick, Mobil 1's basic water soluable, and even some local brands. I could never get more than a month out of a tank of coolant without it rotting. Alot of the Rustlick versions I tried corroded my aluminum so bad I couldn't use it.

I've got skimmers setup with fish tank bubblers. The Hangsterfers lasted me 6 months in each 40 gallon tank, and I could have even nursed it further but I needed to clean all the hot roll scale and fine chips off the bottom of the tank.

If you want, I can send you a spring water bottle full of S500 and you can mix it yourself and see how you like it. It smells like crayons.

Evan

Odor is caused by bacteria. Sump-side coalesor helps. Usually get no smell with Trim-Sol, that is if you skim oil, and keep chips out of your tank. (chips give a surface for bacteria, and oil gives it food) Synthetic based coolants are best for restricting bacteria, but gives less "lube" effect. Soft water helps.

I have been very happy with blazer(sp?). Its been 8 months and no odor. My mill is in the attached garage and if there was odor believe me i would know. My wife would make sure of it smile.gif

I do 99% AL and will order more of the same stuff. Also get their cleaner and oil. I skim my tank with a 10" fish tank net when everything has drained and floated to the top. I have left it stagnant for up to two weeks in September (70-90* temps) A good skim and off ya go...

I'd second the Hangsterfers with the caveat of foaming. See PBMW-s post on that one.
It's about to be removed from the lathe as even the Microcentric collet closer whips it up looking like a dishwasher with manual detergent, but in the VMC it should be tolerable. Does not emulsify with the waylube, specially not with Hangsterfer's own. It has a low odor that is almost pleasing and it washes off the parts easily.

Blaser is also nice, but a real pain to separate the oil out of it. Smells real nice when fresh, get only slightly ugly after oil is emulsified in it but it's definiately tolerable. 2 of my lathes and one VMC has it, the new one is about to get swithched to it. It has slightly better lubrication properties than Hangsterfer's, specifically with Aluminum.

But neither one gets disgusting.

I've had a bad experience with Valcool. When we 1st setup our Tree VMC The dealer recomended it to us, Well about 6 months later it had a very strong gym sock odor. Cleaned it out scrubed the tanks refilled with Hocut 795, and have been running it without a smell or tank cleanout since '99 or '00 (we lose alot of coolant out with the chips and evaporation). This machine sometimes can sits idle for 2-3 weeks. I just skim it regularly. The vmc uses grease so I don't know how hocuts reacts to tramp oil. We run everything between Platics and Titanium and it worked well with all (Short run stuff so I don't know how it hold up in production). No problems with staining and the residue is not that bad.

Oh and we also had to add lots of Valcools anti-foam into the valcool to keep the floor free of suds :rolleyes:

While we're onto coolants. Although the smell factor is big for me(basement shop). How are those coolants like Hocut and Hangsterfers when it comes to machine corrosion/rust. Pretty much all the coolants I ever used would rust any mating metal surfaces. They also ate paint like crazy. I need a coolant that smells as little as possible but that mostly has very very good rust prevention, and won't eat the paint too bad. It's for a manual lathe, HLV-H copy. How is that new Cimcool stuff? anyone using it?

I have been using Hansterfers for 6+ years and since I mostly run plastics and aluminum I have reduced the concentration to just above the min suggested by the manufacturer. Norusting no odors and no skin problems and it does not eat paint.
Good stuff tried many others before switching. You do need to switch way lube to Hangsterfers also so it will not mix.

Viper,
You might want to check out this product. I'll be carrying this for my job shop customers.
These guys were machine tools dealers who came up with their own formula to put in machines for demo's. So many customers liked it that they started making it for sale. I talked with Henry up there Friday, he said it's taking off really fast.
http://www.liquidicecoolant.com/machinetool_faqs.html

Stick with a soluble oil for the best rust prevention of your parts and machines. Synthetics, and semi-synthetics seem to cause more rust issues over time.
I like the oily film Blasers BC20SW leaves on the inside of my machines. Sure beats rust!

Regarding rust - the Hangsterfers S500 does a good job at 3-5% concentration of leaving a film of oil on everything it touches. It wipes off parts easily, but if left on parts for more than an hour the water evaporates and leaves behind a film of green oil.

I should also note that it leaves behind a green film on the insides of my VMCs. This wipes right off, but looks odd smile.gif

I do get a bit of foaming blasting 3 nozzles at an 8k tool. I notice that it foams worse when its fresh and not totally mixed. After a couple hours of mixing the foaming is drastically less. If I keep the coolant level high there's no chance of the coolant pump thrashing. If coolant drops down too low it's a recipe for foam using any coolant.

I've had no problems with Hocut eating paint, the only problem I've had with rust is occasionly a tiny bit on a Vertex spacer's chuck (just the face) if the concentrate gets low.

Where would a guy pick up these products? WE have always bought locally. Will anti-bacterial additives or whatnot worth adding to the coolant? Thanks

This is where we get Hocut. http://www.sandrisunoco.com/lubricants.html
They UPS 5 gallon buckets to us.

Will anti-bacterial additives or whatnot worth adding to the coolant? I'll give my little coolant lecture. First thing is you should never ever have to buy additives for your coolant. Don't you pay enough already? Treat it like a fish tank, let the natural bacteria take its course. If a coolant company sells an anti-stink product, then they expect it to stink, DO NOT BUY IT. Do not buy your coolant from the same place you buy toilet paper and floor wax, it is crap.

I'm not a fan of biocides. Bacteria are wiley creatures and can evolve to eat just about anything, including what is susposed to kill them. This will throw off your natural balance, and cause stink.

Buy a quality coolant, I'm a Blaser fan, and maintain it. Its not that hard. Keep the crap out, this includes, spit, urine, tobacco, food, sulphurized oils, bleach, and soaps, all soaps. If the inside of the machine is dirty, it is dried coolant, wet coolant takes it off very well. Skim it, and shovel the muddy crap off the bottom of the sump once in a while. Decant the coolant and go. Decanting involves putting it in a barrel for a couple of days, this lets some of the smaller tramp oil droplets to float to the top, and the suspended, tiny abrasive chips to go to the bottom.

My first suggestion, is to identify why your coolant smells, then go from there, don't just blame the coolant, though it very well may be the problem.

One of the biggest factors (in my op.) is that once you change the coolant, usually not many people run a flush on it, and a good sterilization chemical such as Blasoclean for an example, then bacterial starts to build in the lines, and in the pumps, and under way covers, and anywhere else it can sit stag. or, that bacteria can breed uncontrolled in the coolant. Blaser, is my #1 choice always because that is all they do is coolant, they dont have 100 other lines of product, like Valcool, and Chemtool, etc... to float them if their coolant sucks. Blaser also has a built in antimicrobial factor that helps to keep the stink down, by limiting bacterial growth and helps keep the coolant stable, and every Blaser coolant I have run has excellent split off in regard with the way lube, if you have it. Find your local Blaser rep. and have him give you the coolant DVD that Blaser has put together, it can explain what they are doing a lot better than I can. We run Valcool in our shop and, honestly every month they have to re charge because it has gone so rancid that operators can barely stand to run it. I would not go with the Valcool, they have changed their formula, and it is not the same as it used to be. We are in the process of validating the Blaser Vasco line right now to get it charged in all the machines. Valcool foams like a S. O. B. it's horrid. Where as some others dont foam as bad. Here is what you need to do in order to get your coolant to last. Before you recharge, put an antibacterial chemical in it and let it run through the machine for a good day, pull the pumps, then put them in a bucket of clear water, and flush the lines with another bucket under your outlets (to minimize rust), suck the sump out, and clean it THOROUGHLY this is important to not carry bacteria from change to change, then re charge and you should be good to go. Most smell problems are DIRECTLY related, as well to concentration problems, refract your coolant often, and you will be happy, once a week minimum. Preferably every time you top off. You cannot rely on experience, everything is a factor, air moving through the shop, heat, humidity, carry out, it all effects evaporation and concentration and can throw you off fast. However, some coolants just plain STINK! I dont know what it is about them, they just dont smell very good at all. Suggestions to you are to watch your concentration, clean your sump out well before you change coolant, keep way lube skimmed off, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, dont put other UN-NECESSARY chemicals in the coolant, they just plain alter the performance of the coolant and it's not the same ever again. Good luck

P. S. 03 generators help with the smell problem o. k. but I think that if you can keep the way lube out of if, it will help more than anything else, look up www.kellerproducts.net (http://www.kellerproducts.net) ? I think that's the website, they make a fairly good, pretty cheap, portable filter system, that is pneumatically driven, which is pretty cool.

we are running Houghton H795B on everything, but its primary application is 7000 series aluminum. The H795 looks identical but may stain some aluminum alloys. skimmers help alot and the rest is keeping the refractometer in use.

Blaser
switched over in 2004 from valcool. Never a problem with odor or anything

Chapter 18
Sump Cleaning

The main enemy of coolant is bacteria. Get rid of the breeding grounds for bacteria properly and you simplify your problem. The coolant should be filtered and recycled regularly. The machines also should drained and completely cleaned once each year. This is the traditional figure. With really good coolant management this may not be necessary.

Collecting dirty coolant from the sump is made much easier and requires much less time when a sump vacuum or the filter system pump is used. The cleaning is also made more effective if the sump has rounded corners, nowhere for microbes to hide, and is made of sheet metal construction. To prevent weekend growth of anaerobic bacteria be the coolant can be agitated and aerated to prevent anaerobic conditions from forming.

Pretreatment
1. Treat the sump for bio contamination using a biocide / fungicide and following the manufacturer's procedures and recommendations.
2. The old fluid with the biocide should be run for a minimum of 48 to 72 hours.
3. The mixture should be dumped and disposed of safely and according to local, state and federal regulations.

Cleaning
4. Pump the sump out.
5. Shovel out all swarf, fines and chips.
6. Clean any oily residues that remains on any surface.
7. Clean as much as you can at this point.
All areas must be cleaned no matter how hard they are to reach. Uncleaned areas provide a source of bacteria that rapidly attack the fluid used to refill the sump after cleaning.
8. Add your cleaner.
9. Always put water in first and add cleaner last to prevent foaming.
10. Cleaner should be hot water mixed with a good alkaline machine cleaner.
a.) Compatible with the metalworking fluid (in case some cleaner remains in the system after rinsing);
b.) Low foaming to prevent pump cavitation, which is the sudden formation and collapse of low pressure bubbles induced by the pump's mechanical forces;
c.) Resistant to short term rusting between cleanout and recharge.

11. Circulate several hours to loosen and remove any hardened deposits, oily films, or gummy residues. The cleaner should run through the system just like the coolant for up to 3 hours.
12. Hose down throughout the whole inside.
13. While the cleaning solution is circulating, leaking equipment should be repaired.
14. Clean the outside of the machine.
15. Wipe down the outside with the same cleaner using a spritzer container at the same dilution ratio
16. If possible, troublesome areas should be steam cleaned.
17. Once this step has been completed the cleaner should be dumped.

Rinsing

18. Once the machine has been thoroughly cleaned and inspected, any residual cleaning solution must be rinsed from the equipment. Fresh water should be circulated through the system at least twice to rinse off any remaining cleaner.
19. Wipe cleaning solution residues from the sump.
20. Do the first rinse.
21. To protect against flash rusting, a small amount of fluid concentrate (0.5% to 1.0%) should be added to the rinse water. This is done to prevent any flash rust.
22. Wipe off cleaned surfaces that are not contacted by the rinse water cycling through the system.
23. Do the second rinse.
Rinse water should then be placed in the system along with a 4.0 to 50:1 ratio of coolant to rinse the cleaning agent out.
24. This should run for approximately 15 minutes.
25. The interior of the machine should also be rinsed down with this solution.
26. The rinse water should also be disposed of properly.

Recharging
27. During the rinsing you should mix up your coolant at the manufacturer's suggested ratio and have it ready to place into the system immediately after pumping out the rinsing agent. You can also add another dose of biocide to start off.
28. After it is completely drained of the rinse solution, the system can be charged with fresh fluid.
29. The machine should then be turned on and run for about 30 minutes so as to get the coolant well dispersed on all parts of the exposed portions of the machining area.
30. The fluid should then be circulated for at least 15 minutes prior to production.

After One Week
31. After running the machine for one (1) week, dump the coolant.
32. Replace the coolant again at the manufacturer's recommendation