10K Leadscrew Reverse Lever Installed on 9" ABC - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    2,868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Post

    do you like the key creator?
    Ehhh, it's okay. They need to quit adding new features and just get all the bugs fixed. I really like the solids modeling capability, but generating clean, usable dimensioned layouts from the models is another story altogether. The only reason I'm using KC is out of habit -- I began my CAD experience in 1991 with Cadkey 3.something.

    I still have a good customer that wants their work drawn in the old .prt format, so I keep a copy of Cadkey 6.02 (dos) on an old Win95 machine. It's actually *much* faster than any windows-interface CAD package I've used. Uses the Pharr-Lap graphics engine and writes directly to the screen. No bloated windows graphics interface to navigate through. Way out of date, though, for anything but simple 2D drawings.

    Paula

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Post

    Gary, Sounds great. have you got any pictures?

    Jeff,
    My 1964 SBL 9A has this lever. I just took it for granted all 9's had it as well.
    HA! So you're probably thinking to yourself "Why the heck do they keep calling it a 10K lever? It's a 9" lever!"

    -Bruce

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    23,385
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3576

    Post

    I thought the phar-lap thing could only run
    under a true dos window.

    I have a passing acquaintance with that because
    the DOS version of microcadam uses that memory
    manager.

    In fact I keep a pentium 133 machine here at
    home, running DOS 6.1 because I have a freebie
    copy of microcadam.

    Like you say, that stuff is way much faster
    than the fancy solids modelling programs. I'm
    a terrible throwback, I learned CADAM on a
    IBM 360 mainframe system, with the big TV tubes
    and the light pens. I've tried a bunch of other
    programs and none of them seem to be as fast
    or as usefull to me. Because the mainframe
    support went away I transfered over to the
    PC based versions, first DOS and then Windows.

    At this point it's a dying pony because the
    drivers don't work with anything besides NT
    or older systems, and the company that bought
    out Altium (the PC version owner) deliberately
    killed off all support for it years ago.

    Ah well pretty soon it'll be back to the
    T-square and the pencil. Those things still
    work.

    Jim

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    2,868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Post

    10K Leadscrew Reverse Lever - Addendum

    I was very pleased with how this project turned out, but one thing still bothered me about its operation. When shifting the detent lever I need to remember not to pull it even slightly to the left, or the lever's shank will slip out of the headstock hole, and make it difficult to seat the detent pin. Not a huge problem, but it could be better.

    I believe that the 10k-style lever shank is supposed to be retained in the headstock hole by a split ring retained at the end of the shank. Presumably the compression of the split ring (similar to a very wide piston ring) is supposed to provide enough friction to keep the bracket reasonably retained in the headstock hole. However, the split ring on my lever was completely non-functional. I pondered the idea of making a new ring, or perhaps beefing up/shimming the existing ring, but then I hit on a different approach that would provide more positive retention, plus be an interesting machining exercise.

    The idea would use the 5/16-18 hole I tapped in the back of the headstock for the spring detent pin (which is no longer needed). The spring plunger would be replaced by a dog-point setscrew which would engage a corresponding groove cut in the shank of the lever bracket. To locate the exact position for the groove, I used a transfer punch that just fit the I.D. of the 5/16-18 hole.

    The tricky part was coming up with a way to hold the bracket to cut the groove, especially given my limited resources. I came to the conclusion that the only practial way was to machine an 11/16" diameter mandrel to fit the I.D. of the shank, and tap the mandrel for a bolt and washer to hold the bracket in place. With a suitable length of 1-1/4" CRS chucked in the 3-jaw, the mandrel was sized for a push fit in the bore of the shank. Here's the finished mandrel:



    And here it is with the bracket bolted in place:



    Pretty radical setup with the lever sticking out, barely clearing the saddle wings. In order to prevent a crash, I decided to use the compound (set at 90 degrees) to turn the groove, and locked the carriage in place such that the compound would not extend far enough to accidentally hit the lever. Should be okay as long as I remember to keep my hands clear!

    To cut the groove, I made up a special tool out of a 1/8" square HSS bit. I relieved all three sides of the tool, but left the top flat, and cleared out a groove in the face of the tool with a Dremel-mounted cutoff wheel, which would help to prevent chatter:



    With the tool height carefully set on center (or just slightly above), I began cutting the groove. I figured out the compound dial positions for the ends of the cut, as the tool was considerably narrower than the groove (much less chatter that way, compared to using a full-width tool), and cranked the compound back and forth between those two settings as I very slowly fed the tool into the work. It went smoothly, and this is what the finished groove looks like:



    Since I didn't have any 5/16-18 dog-point setscrews handy, I turned one from a regular setscrew:



    Here's the view into the headstock hole, showing the position of the setscrew. (Another "jam setscrew" was threaded in behind it to lock it in place at final assembly):



    With everything oiled and put back together the detent lever now works well, even if you don't pull exactly straight out on the knob. Makes "shifting" much easier!

    Paula

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Temple, Texas
    Posts
    2,261
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    200

    Post

    Jim-
    On the question of PDF producing CAD - you can make PDF's from any program by using a PDF printer program. Google "cute pdf" for a freeware version of this program. There are many versions of this type of program available - most of them free. They all work by adding a "printer" to your list of printers. When you select the "cute PDF" printer and print, the program will ask you for a file name and location. On completion, you will have a PDF of whatever you have printed saved at that file location. So it will work with any program that will print.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    23,385
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3576

    Post

    That looks like a Doug Gonze special, "self
    repairing and replicating machine tools!"

    (doug was very active on rcm at one time)

    And thanks for the PDF file tips, as well.

    Jim

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Post

    Paula,

    I assume you saw the post I put up on this topic a while ago:

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ub...79.html#000000

    With that ring opened up a bit, it seems to provide a suitable amount of friction to hold things together. Granted, it's certainly not a positive lock like what you did, but "just enough" and it was a lot easier. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Nice work!! -Bruce

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    2,868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Post

    Bruce,

    Hmmmmm... no, I don't remember seeing that! Maybe I just wasn't paying close attention because it wasn't relevant at the time.

    For some reason the split ring on my unit seemed very worn, and when I tried it in the headstock hole, it had no holding power at all. I tried enlarging the gap with a screwdriver, but it made no noticeable difference, measuring only about 1.055" O.D. afterward. Now that I don't need the thing anymore, I made a more aggressive attempt to expand the ring. I pulled it open to the point where it made a slight "crackling" sound. After that, the O.D. measured 1.074", which would presumably work. Still, I'm glad that I don't need to rely on it, as it doesn't seem to have served its purpose very well the first time around.

    (Or, maybe I just couldn't stand the thought of having drilled and tapped a hole in the back of my headstock for no reason! )

    Paula

    [ 12-13-2006, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Paula ]

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Post

    And here I was coming up with all sorts of complicated solutions to hold this thing in!

    You know... The kind of thing that Paula would do!
    On the inside.....

    I couldn't get enough spread in mine with a screwdriver in the slot and I found that I had to take the ring off the lever in order to supply the right amount of coaxing. I clamped the ring in the vise very close to one tip of the split and grabbed very close to the other tip with a pair of pliers and opened it. My theory was that I wanted to spread the "adjustment" over the entire ring and not just bend it in one small spot.

    Haha!! That slight crackling sound is the sound of success. That's how you know you've got it just right.

    Seriously though, your solution is exactly what I was thinking I was gonna do if I was still dissatisfied with the retention power of the ring even after I had expanded it.

    I'll also admit that I don't read all the posts here, even in the South Bend section. Most, but not all. Traffic here seems to be up lately which is cool.

    -Bruce

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    902
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    76
    Likes (Received)
    512

    Post

    quote:
    Jim-
    On the question of PDF producing CAD - you can make PDF's from any program by using a PDF printer program. Google "cute pdf" for a freeware version of this program. There are many versions of this type of program available - most of them free. They all work by adding a "printer" to your list of printers. When you select the "cute PDF" printer and print, the program will ask you for a file name and location. On completion, you will have a PDF of whatever you have printed saved at that file location. So it will work with any program that will print.

    CutePDF is excellent! I use it for CAD drawings and music arrangements. And the free CutePDF Companion will let you add pages, for a multipage PDF from separate files.

    I still use an old Ashlar program called DrawingBoard. It has some (for it's age) really nice, simple features, and it's the easiest one I've ever tried to use. It's no longer available, of course. But the people at Ashlar told me that they no longer have any interest in it, so, if anybody out there would like a copy, let me know. I have it for both Windows and Mac (PPC).

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Northwest NJ
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    So I'm getting ready to do the 10K lever upgrade to my 1947 SB 9A, and I need a little help.

    I have my reverse lever assembly and I have been researching the techniques. Bruce's and Paula's are the most extensive writeups I have found, but I have come across at least three different template designs for the adapter plate with three different thicknesses ranging from .360" to .430"

    Is the thickness something that needs to be determined for each lathe?

    Paula, The .430 comes from your write up above, and from what I can deduce, your lathe looks to be identical to mine so I'm inclined to use your number, but I'm all ears for any other opinions.

    Thanks,
    The other Bruce

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Eudora Arkansas
    Posts
    279
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    13
    Likes (Received)
    14

    Default

    I used Paula's template. Worked perfect as mine is a 47 model. I'm no painter but it looks better, maybe you can see the lever.

    tommie
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 007.jpg  

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rbwillnj View Post
    Is the thickness something that needs to be determined for each lathe?
    Hi TO Bruce,

    It's not so much "determined for each lathe" as it is "determined for each reverse lever assembly". It's the reverse lever geometry that dictates the optimum thickness for that plate.

    Since my original write-up I have gone back and replaced my original aluminum template with a steel final version. I used .400 plate because that's what I had laying around, but I just measured mine and .430 would have done a better job of centering the plunger holes.

    Using .400 plate, my holes are about .030 off center and are closer to the tailstock edge of the plate, so .430 plate would have been primo.

    I bet if you use anything between .400 and .430, you'll be satisfied with the results.

    Bruce

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    2,868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rbwillnj View Post

    Is the thickness something that needs to be determined for each lathe?
    Bruce, I arrived at the .43" dimension purely through inspection. I removed the original reversing quadrant, and replaced it with the detent-style quadrant. I observed how the twin gears lined up with the existing gears, with the pin at a reasonable distance from the headstock. I would not want to go much thinner than .43, given the size hole required for the pin, including a decent countersink lead-in. But if you go much thicker, the twin gears may not fully mesh with the spindle gear.

    Good luck with the project!

    Paula

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Northwest NJ
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Thanks for the input guys. I'll start with .430 and if needed (and it doesn't sound as though it will be), I can aways mill it down or take some off with a surface grinder.

    At this moment, I'm planning to attach the plate with just one screw at the existing location. I really don't feel comfortable drilling and tapping my headstock. I have seen write-ups by others who have used the one screw method to attach the plate. Has anyone had a problem with that method.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Albertville, Alabama
    Posts
    1,049
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    33

    Default

    My plate is .390 thick.
    The dimension is more a by product of your reverse lever casting and how it lines up with your gear train and the other components. My gears are all centered perfectly at that dimension. Your's may be thicker or slightly thinner it will soley depend on the other components. There is no need to worry about drilling and tapping your head unless you want to sell your lathe as a pristine piece of history, otherwise its a tool, use it and modiy it as needed. To many people get wrapped up in making these things museum pieces and forget they are machine tools and if they were used in an industrial settings which alot of them were they may already be modified to some degree. Mine was used for 40 years in a heating and cooling company for one reason or another.

    Good luck with your project!

    Edit: I sold one of these plates to a fellow member about 3 weeks ago that was a spare from when I made mine on the CNC at work, it was the same thickness as the one I have on my machine and he said it fit perfect, I wouldn't worry to much about the thickness if thats the case.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Northwest NJ
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Thanks Mcruff,

    I'm not really worried about maintianing the museum quality, there are enough of these things around to fill many museums. I'm mostly concerned about messing up the headstock, plus the extra work involved. It just doesn't seem like it would be necessary to have more than one screw holding it in place, but then that was what my question was all about.....do I need more than one screw.

    Bruce

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Default

    Bruce,

    I wasn't completely comfortable using just one screw for the location of the plate because the location of that plate is what establishes the amount of backlash in the drive gears. I wanted to be able to take that plate off and put it back on in the correct location with a minimum of muss, fuss, and adjusting.

    So what I did was drilled a small (1/8" maybe) locating dowel pin hole in the plate, put the plate loosely into place, got the gear lash just where I wanted it, locked it in place with a bolt in the original location, and then using the dowel hole in the plate as a guide, drilled a corresponding hole in the headstock. Lightly tapped a dowel into the hole. That's my locating pin and a bolt in the original location is for retention.

    It's a small hole that could easily be filled with a pin and filed flush in the event that my lathe ends up as a museum piece.

    I guess one screw would be OK, but remember that any time you have to mess with that plate, you'll have to reset your gear lash and make sure it's about equal between the two driving directions.

    Bruce FTF_E

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    2,868
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    51

    Default

    Bruce, do you still have the pictures that you originally posted to this thread? If you do, I am willing to host them and replace them in your posts. I think the pics would help a lot of people who are doing this modification.

    Paula

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    879
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paula View Post
    Bruce, do you still have the pictures that you originally posted to this thread? If you do, I am willing to host them and replace them in your posts. I think the pics would help a lot of people who are doing this modification.

    Paula
    Paula, Yes I have the originals and I thank you very much for helping with my web space inadequacy. I've been meaning to do something about that, but haven't been able to. I've not been on the computer much at all in the last nine months or so.

    Check your PM for additional info.

    Bruce


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •