120V Motor Suggestions
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  1. #1
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    Default 120V Motor Suggestions

    Plugged in the lathe and this old motor didnt turn. It well could be a connection. But the motor appears very old, and is only 1/2HP. Plus the capacitor may be tired. (Guessing)From reading here, I'm thinking to replace the old leather belt with a glued wide serpentine since everybody says those don't slip nearly as easily.

    I wouldnt mind more than 1/2 hp, up to a full HP.

    Any suggestions on where to source a 120V 1HP motor?

    Thanks

    img_20171227_124806-2-.jpg

    img_20171227_124752-copy.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    Plugged in the lathe and this old motor didnt turn. It well could be a connection. But the motor appears very old, and is only 1/2HP. Plus the capacitor may be tired. (Guessing)From reading here, I'm thinking to replace the old leather belt with a glued wide serpentine since everybody says those don't slip nearly as easily.

    I wouldnt mind more than 1/2 hp, up to a full HP.

    Any suggestions on where to source a 120V 1HP motor?

    Thanks

    img_20171227_124806-2-.jpg

    img_20171227_124752-copy.jpg
    For a SB and its belting and bearings, 3/4 HP is plenty, no more than 1 HP, if you but get the appropriate pole-count and RPM. EG: NOT a 3450+ RPM two-pole.

    Keep it protected from ingesting or being buried in dirt, dust, swarf, coolant, tramp oils, and even a HF or Grainger/Zorro Dayton "farm duty" type will last a long time.

    Leather belting is not hard to glue. Preparing properly it can be.

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    Modern synthetic from Baltimore Belting or Al Bino

    3/4HP 3ph motor with Vfd,if you gotta replace might as well make it worthwhile.

    But first does the motor do anything at all? Hum,click??? Can you turn the shaft by hand?

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    I have learned so far, 1725RPM not 3450.

    I really want a full 1HP. The rubber serp belt will help make use of that when needed (they grip better).

    What I am wondering, are new electric motors more efficient than the old ones? I have found some old ones (similar to what's on there) which look more appropriate to the machine anyway. If the efficiency is not that much less I'd rather have old looking motor in there.

    Also wondering about what is a "starter"? Is that another term for the big capacitor? Is that really needed for a machine you start with no load on it?

    Finally, surprised how much motors are nowadays! Looking at $200 for something like this:

    DAYTON Belt Drive Mtr,CS,ODP,1HP,1725rpm - 6K321'|'6K321 - Grainger


    or this one for $325!

    DAYTON GP Mtr,CS,TEFC,1 HP,1725 rpm,56H - 6K562'|'6K562BG - GraingerDAYTON GP Mtr,CS,TEFC,1 HP,1725 rpm,56H - 6K562'|'6K562BG - Grainger

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    I have learned so far, 1725RPM not 3450.

    I really want a full 1HP. The rubber serp belt will help make use of that when needed (they grip better).

    What I am wondering, are new electric motors more efficient than the old ones? I have found some old ones (similar to what's on there) which look more appropriate to the machine anyway. If the efficiency is not that much less I'd rather have old looking motor in there.

    Also wondering about what is a "starter"? Is that another term for the big capacitor? Is that really needed for a machine you start with no load on it?

    Finally, surprised how much motors are nowadays! Looking at $200 for something like this:

    DAYTON Belt Drive Mtr,CS,ODP,1HP,1725rpm - 6K321'|'6K321 - Grainger
    Yah well... if I had to buy a Reliance Type T DC motor in 3 to 5 HP, as used on Monarch 10EE?

    Twelve thousand dollars and up.

    That said, unless you are experienced and comfortable rebuilding them, new is better on single-phase. More to go wrong with them, and "sooner" than with 3-Phase motors.

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    It turns by hand. No noise when applying power but it's exteremly cold now so I didnt even check all the wiring which is likely the issue. I figured while it's too cold in the shop I may as well find out the basics about motors. I'd really like going up to the 1HP anyway. But if this 1/2 HP works after all it will hold me over.

    As to a VFD type arrangement, as nice as that would be, I'd rather keep it simple for now. And they don't give those controlers away.




    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    Modern synthetic from Baltimore Belting or Al Bino

    3/4HP 3ph motor with Vfd,if you gotta replace might as well make it worthwhile.

    But first does the motor do anything at all? Hum,click??? Can you turn the shaft by hand?

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    You can get a 3 ph modor AND VFD for right about 200bucks.

    On a 115v circuit 1HP is pushing it...someone turns something on and flips the breaker...

    Just one decent example-
    http://dealerselectric.com/Package-P...0-201-H1-U.asp

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    That mounting is odd and pulley too am all as it has small amount of contact area so slipping it will.

    Motors are common and cheap on craigs list but yours not responding at all indicates bad motor or bad switch.

    Get a voltmeter and check things out.

    Carefully open up any switches and inspect all connections.

    An ohm meter can be used to check it out without power.

    Check continuity from plug prong to motor wiring.

    Easy to do.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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    You really don't need 1 HP on a 10L. The flat belt was one of the SB strengths years ago. You can't get enough power through it to really damage the machine when you crash it. That is why it was so popular.

    I have had mine for 39 years now and have had a variety of motors on it.

    I run short run production on it and wear out starting switches.
    I finally ran out of spart 1/2 HP motors and put a 3/4 HP on it. It lives on a 220 Volt circuit. The 3/4 HP is plenty big enough. It chirps the V belt when it starts. The 1/2 HP didn't.

    I live within the limitation of the lathe. When I need to really take off metal fast, I go use the Monarch EE, but then the metal is so hot after heavy roughing, it has to cool of for awhile before any finish ops can be done.
    So there is the trade off, hurry or take my time.

    Bill

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    Thanks for the replies. I found an oooold Century Repulsion Start - Induction Run Single Phase Motor, 1 HP local, and cheap. Anyone know anything about these?

    EDIT Nevermind. These motors are way cool, with high starting torque before the mechanism switches over. But they cant be reversed by switch and slightly too complex for this application.

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    you are also missing the two step motor pulley,and will be severely limited on the spindle speeds without that,especially with a single phase motor.

    There are lots of possible options depending on what your goals are and your budget is...on a shoestring you fix what you got and live with it until you are in a position to upgrade.

    Fair chance a good cleaning will get what you got going...start at the drum switch...contacts corrode...sometimes all it takes is a hose down with WD40 and working the switch a bit...failing that a multi meter and work your way through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    you are also missing the two step motor pulley,and will be severely limited on the spindle speeds without that,especially with a single phase motor.
    did this machine originally come with two pulley sizes on motor that is changed like when we move the flat belt?

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    Yes, originally had a two step motor pulley for a "high" and "low" speed range.

    If you look to the large pulley the motor belt connects to you will see it has 2 steps and is a flat pulley.

    the system works with the v pulley at the motor and the flat pulley on the countershaft.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    Yes, originally had a two step motor pulley for a "high" and "low" speed range.

    If you look to the large pulley the motor belt connects to you will see it has 2 steps and is a flat pulley.

    the system works with the v pulley at the motor and the flat pulley on the countershaft.
    OK a little update, here's a picture of my big pulley can it really be wide enough to move the belt over? Also, how is it loostened to move it, the same lever as flat belt, or some other tensioner?

    As to the motor, I plugged it in and turned it and at a certain place in the rotation it clicked, buzzed and then turned very slowly (even though it was very free by hand) then tripped the reset on the power strip I was using. It didnt sound good at all. After a couple times I cant seem to get it to go at all. I'm not an electric motor guy but it doesnt seem good.

    img_20171228_114803.jpg

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    edited- I now see this is a 199, so yes, single step pulleys and a top speed of 700pm is the factory arrangement.
    My apologies for the confusion.
    With only 6 spindle speeds and a top of 700rpm you are really going to want a 3ph and vfd eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    With only 6 spindle speeds and a top of 700rpm you are really going to want a 3ph and vfd eventually.
    did a quick calc, and turning aluminum (250SFM) at 1/2" diameter, would call for almost a 2000 RPM spindle speed.

    Does this setup on your linked site look suitable? I want the headroom of a full 1HP.

    1 HP, 18 RPM, Toshiba Motor with 1 HP, 115 Volts, Teco VFD at Dealers Industrial

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    Does this setup on your linked site look suitable? I want the headroom of a full 1HP.

    1 HP, 18 RPM, Toshiba Motor with 1 HP, 115 Volts, Teco VFD at Dealers Industrial
    ?? If Marathon has nameplated a 60 Hz motor at 1800 RPM, I take it as given it is a synchronous motor.

    VFD'ed or not, No Fine Way is that a good match to machine-tool loadings.

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    If you plan on plugging into a 115V outlet you don't want 1HP, nor do you even need it and doubtful you can use it if you had it.

    It's just additional load on a puny circuit.

    Headroom doesn't really so much apply anyway as you would be using it to get higher spindle speeds(about 1400 MAX BTW and even that's pushing the gear train, I would be much more comfortable about 1200RPM)

    Above 60hz you are in constant HP so you will not see much,if any, perceptible loss in power like you do below 60hz.

    ps-'in regards to Monarchist's comment about the dealers electic motors, they are 1725-50 nameplate motors but they are just ranking them by their synchronous speed(presumably to make just a couple generic categories) so the n motors are fine.

    To add, I still bet you can clean that existing motor, and 700rpm isn't bad,actually for a beginner probably even a good idea. it's enough to do what you need to do, the rules don't really matter when using such small,light machines in a hobby type environment...figure SFM and get as close as you can and call it good.

    Its almost a guarantee that no new motor will be a direct fit so getting that old one going and learning to use the machine as-is will be in your best interest IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    If Marathon has nameplated a 60 Hz motor at 1800 RPM, I take it as given it is a synchronous motor. VFD'ed or not, No Fine Way is that a good match to machine-tool loadings.
    Can u explain what this means? I don't understand what you are saying.

    Here's a data plate from another E349 Marathon, if that helps.

    marathon.jpg

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    Don't worry about it...see my comment about how dealers electric categorizes motors by their synchronous speed, not the nameplate speed.

    If you are really determined to replace the motor and want 3ph and vfd there are better options than the combos..I only linked it to show that such combos are possible in the 200-300 dollar range.


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