120V Motor Suggestions - Page 2
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 70
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    what better options? that $200 combo looks like a heck of a deal. anything wrong with going that way?

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    4,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    1270

    Default

    not a thing wrong with it.
    But I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
    are you prepared to re-drill and tap motor mounts?
    Wire a switch into the vfd?
    Set the parameters?

    You may be only a simple cleaning away from having a working machine.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Ok now I get it. As to the existing motor, you may be right but when I attempted to run it I saw bad signs. It only worked slowly and a couple times when manually turned. Turning very slowly and buzzing. It quickly got hot (despite subfreezing temps) and I thought I heard a pop. Then nothing. It also only worked in one direction. Was turning extremely slow despite being very free by hand, with no belt on it. The shaft has some end play and some side play.

    As to the VFD, I've already seen on another site a industrial style nice panel to control it including an emergency stop button, and included a schematic (same VFD model). Didnt look too complicated.

    As to mounting the motor, yes I can drill and tap, and could even make an adapter plate to leave the lathe original.

    OTOH, even if this motor is dead, I could eventually try and find a at least 3/4 HP 115v motor on craigs list or something but the asking prices are not all that cheap, making getting a 3ph VFD all the more appealing.

    But with this weather, there's plenty of time to learn the options.

    Definately thanks for all the input!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    4,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    1270

    Default

    See here- it's more money up front BUT it requires no separate enclosure,has all the analog switches already on it, and may be May be mounted directly on the machine anywhere you like..
    KBAC-24D 1HP VFD 115/23VAC GRAY 9987

    If you shop around a bit a new surplus 3ph motor can be had for 100 bucks or less....no,additional expense that's all you need and ultra simple to hook up.

  5. Likes Monarchist liked this post
  6. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    Can u explain what this means? I don't understand what you are saying.

    Here's a data plate from another E349 Marathon, if that helps.

    Attachment 216509
    That's better. MUCH better.

    1735 RPM and a "relatively" low efficiency, type "TTS", with all the other good info on VFD use sez this is a VERY good choice for VFD use.

    See Iwana's post. It is the dealer's advert-copy writer that is f**ked up, not the motor.


  7. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    Ok now I get it. As to the existing motor, you may be right but when I attempted to run it I saw bad signs. It only worked slowly and a couple times when manually turned. Turning very slowly and buzzing. It quickly got hot (despite subfreezing temps) and I thought I heard a pop. Then nothing. It also only worked in one direction. Was turning extremely slow despite being very free by hand, with no belt on it. The shaft has some end play and some side play.
    1-P motors CAN be fixed, but if you are hung-up on wanting a VFD, just go find a used 3-P motor. They are one of the simplest and most reliable devices ever made by mankind.

    Most of the time, all you need is to clean-out any grease, rocks, and dog-hair. Sometimes fit new bearings. And the bearings are cheap.

    The KBAC VFD in NEMA 4-X housing is also "easy". Several trimmer potentiometers set with a small screwdriver serve as parameter-settings "memory" and cannot forget - instead of stepping NVRAM through arcane numbers on a tiny display, perhaps having to "reset" and try again. More than once. Or not. Now and then you get lucky.

    Use the KISS method, and off you go to make bird's nests outta yer shiney-wood.

    You want to do SERIOUS turning - that will be on some other lathe you upgrade to at some future date, so don't get silly as to how much money you sink into powering or tooling this one.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    645
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    42
    Likes (Received)
    36

    Default

    . The shaft has some end play and some side play.
    It sounds like your motor needs the bearings replaced ??

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    1-P motors CAN be fixed..... Most of the time, all you need is to clean-out any grease, rocks, and dog-hair. Sometimes fit new bearings. And the bearings are cheap.

    I'm torn. On one hand, be nice to get that VFD/Motor combo and for $235 be done with it. Maybe add a remote speed and on/off panel later.

    OTOH, I agree with keep it simple. If this 1PH motor worked in the first place, I would not even have started this topic. Money is tight. But I just have a feeling the motor is fried.

    Have to pull it apart and find out what I can. I can handle mechanical issues like bearings but will have to google how a motor works and how to check its windings or whatever else -
    when weather warms up a bit or if I can get some heat into the shed.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    I'm torn. On one hand, be nice to get that VFD/Motor combo and for $235 be done with it. Maybe add a remote speed and on/off panel later.

    OTOH, I agree with keep it simple. If this 1PH motor worked in the first place, I would not even have started this topic. Money is tight. But I just have a feeling the motor is fried.

    Have to pull it apart and find out what I can. I can handle mechanical issues like bearings but will have to google how a motor works and how to check its windings or whatever else -
    when weather warms up a bit or if I can get some heat into the shed.
    The usual issues include perished start cap, and/or snubber, and/or "run" cap, contacts and/or rivets, washers, springs on a centrifugal "starter" plate, end-play control washer stack worn to where the armature shifts endwise and jams.

    And then.. it may even have "plain" bearings of white-metal rather than ball bearings.
    Furnace blower, those can last a quarter century, but still..

    Seldom the windings that have died, but those, too.

    Overall, they aren't generally worth the nuisance-time they consume to repair. Better to find a used 1-P motor that Just Firmly Runs when powered-up. Or a new one.

    3-P motors, OTOH, only thing "perishable" are the windings, which almost never die. And bearings, which last silly-long times, too. Hundred year item, a decent 3-P motor can be. NONE of the rest of that 1-P baggage to go wrong.

    Mind - a VFD is not a "permanent" item. Nor even close.

    The more honest of VFD makers spec new caps around 9 years out. Which cost more than a new VFD.

    Phase-Perfect are generally good for ten years, sometimes far longer.

    An RPC, being primarily a 3-P motor, is the durability king, just as the 3-P motors it drives are. Might want a new set of caps - if it even HAS such, not all do - every 10 or 20 years, a switch or relay "whenever", none of those very expensive.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    4,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    1270

    Default

    Try this.

    Get some aerosol contact cleaner(the mild kind) and some SAE20ish oil.
    Unplug it.
    Spray the drum switch contacts and work it a few times.
    Then take that black cover off the end of the motor, if you have an air compressor use the blast nozzle and blow the cobs out of there, if it's real nasty spray it with the onact cleaner.

    Put a few drops of oil in those cups, don't over do it.

    Let dry and plug it back in and give it a shot.

    Ps- if you go 3ph and vfd you will be money ahead to just pony up for the KBC unit, then go to one of the several used/surplus electric motor dealers in Providence and pick up a 56 frame footed motor...between the money saved on enclosure,switches and shipping on a motor you will come out ahead.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Madera county california usa
    Posts
    1,955
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    430

    Default

    You could pull the motor out and verify all of the connections and worst case scenario remove the drum switch and hard wire a cord and test it out.

    Removing all the extra stuff removes them from the list of possible bad things.

    Inside motor usually the start switch can get wonky so pull the end cap and blow it out with air then inspect and burnish the contacts.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    ...then go to one of the several used/surplus electric motor dealers in Providence and pick up a 56 frame footed motor...between the money saved on enclosure,switches and shipping on a motor you will come out ahead.
    Tight budget?

    FIRST.. go find TWO used 3-P motors. Say a 3/4 to 1 1/2 HP to RUN the lathe.. and a
    3 to 5 HP to use as RPC idler FOR it.

    RPC's drive a load to right about 90% of nameplate, max, but DIY RPC are easy. Get that running, make chips.

    The RPC will be useful for long years, other 3-P equipment, even if you've found the cash to add a VFD to the lathe, later.

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Well VFD lifespan is interesting, I hadnt considered that. Just googled the FM-50 VFD and one person reports 10+ years no issues. But even if mine fails in 7, thats like $20 per year to get a new one. Not concerned about that.

    The RPC approach is interesting. I went to look at a small lathe last year and the guy had a huge home machine shop, and the skill to use it. He was cutting gears to change some equipment from belt to gear. Ver nice work. It all ran off an home-made RPC that he had to "pull start' with a rope then throw the primary power on. Once it was humming, lots of three phase power! (It was huge).

    In my case, the $200 plus shipping for a package as above looks pretty appealing. The motor is cast iron and sealed. People seem to really like that FM-50 VFD. I would just have to bolt in the motor, measure and buy a vee belt, and wire it up and done.

    Unless a very cheap 115v motor drops in my lap, I think will order the VFD package this month.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    4,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    1270

    Default

    Note the combo you linked is a 143 frame motor...that means a 7/8" shaft.
    Your motor pulley is 5/8"....that's why you want a 56 frame motor if you plan on using your old pulley.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Pulleys are cheap, and I may even have one. But thats brings yet another question, I will have to approximately double the pulley diameter to take advantage of the extra power and get some spindle rpm. As was noted above, I am limited to 700RPM now (I'm going by the post somewhere above). To get to a more reasonable 1200 or so, I'll need more pulley anyway. If there is anything wrong with this logic, please let me know!

    EDIT: Just put the dial caliper to it. The motor shaft is 3/4" and pulley is about 1.1" diameter (inner vee belt surface)


    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    Note the combo you linked is a 143 frame motor...that means a 7/8" shaft.
    Your motor pulley is 5/8"....that's why you want a 56 frame motor.

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    moscow,ohio
    Posts
    4,394
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    443
    Likes (Received)
    1270

    Default

    My bad, I thought it was mentioned it was a 56 motor...( sometimes I mix stuff up)

    I was me that brought up the 700rpm thing, that is assuming original configuration as per the 199s spec sheet.

    At 3/4" shaft size you have an old 66 frame motor, you may find this useful to get an idea of general dimensions for a replacement-
    Electrical Motors - Frame Sizes

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iwananew10K View Post
    My bad, I thought it was mentioned it was a 56 motor...( sometimes I mix stuff up)

    I was me that brought up the 700rpm thing, that is assuming original configuration as per the 199s spec sheet.
    Well.. SB shipped their plain-bearing lathes - NEW - in this class with top RPM's a tad above the 1200 he is seeking, but..

    ...while this motor selection issue is being worried to death... I'd want to temp-rig power enough to see if HIS bearings and overall balance are in good enough condition to sustain useful work at nearly double the RPM so-far experienced.

    Borrow one of my bench-grinders or drill motors and play with some pulleys, for example.

    Might be pouring scarce cash into the wrong rathole if the REST of the machine is lacking.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    AS far as getting a pulley, my little pulley is about 1/2" wide at the top. Belt is a gates trueflex 3430 (with South bend printed on it too).

    When I measure the belt it seems between A and B belt size.

    Still trying to sort that out, A or B belt/pulley...

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    57
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    more great points. of course I have flat belt selection and the VFD to stay below the happy limit of the spindle.

    but, since I'm new to this, what is the symptom of over-speeding the spindle for its condition?


    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Well.. SB shipped their plain-bearing lathes - NEW - in this class with top RPM's a tad above the 1200 he is seeking, but..

    ...while this motor selection issue is being worried to death... I'd want to temp-rig power enough to see if HIS bearings and overall balance are in good enough condition to sustain useful work at nearly double the RPM so-far experienced.

    Borrow one of my bench-grinders or drill motors and play with some pulleys, for example.

    Might be pouring scarce cash into the wrong rathole if the REST of the machine is lacking.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    9,197
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4974
    Likes (Received)
    4076

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyinChip View Post
    what is the symptom of over-speeding the spindle for its condition?
    Several. Heat rise. Vibration. Heaven forbid rude noise... in any case failure to get good parts.

    One Day Job, the answer after relying on one Hendey Tie bar and ISTR five SB 9", 1923 founding to 1959 or 60, was to order their first Hardinge.

    Which was easily 10 years overdue, if not "from Big Bang" overdue, even so.

    Yah.. not in your budget, but hey.... sub 1/2" parts will give a Hardinge wet spots in its lacey underpanties.



    IOW.. you got what you got, and there's only but so much to be gained. Worth doing it right, SB's are cheap dates, and do respond well to positive strokes.

    But don't put TOO much time and money into it.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •