1943 South Bend 16" x 60" Lathe Resurrection - Page 15
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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrayAlien View Post
    I am making a new back plate for a three jaw this weekend and I'll be doing the 'make the register a few though under and true the workpiece by loosening the bolts slightly' thing.

    If it is good enough for GH Thomas and Stefan Gotteswinter, it is good enough for me!
    Exactly...that "loosening the bolts slightly thing" is how you get a 3-jaw to act like a 4-jaw when you need it to -- as Stefen does in his videos. That's what I meant when referring to the Adjust-Tru type of chuck. Only difference is the store-bought units come with radial adjusting screws to make the process a bit faster.

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    Although it is not likely under normal conditions, if you have a crash or heavy loading, making the backplate loose on the chuck may result in movement of the chuck relative to the backplate. The radial adjusting bolts, while making adjustment easier, also prevent relative movement.

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  4. #283
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    Interesting. Good point.

  5. #284
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    It's been a little while since my last update--this moving a family across the country stuff is for the birds! After what feels like a long several months, I'm back to making good progress on the restoration. Bear with me while I catch the online history up to current state before marching ahead in real time.

    Shortly after getting the taper attachment remounted, I had the good fortune to spend several days taking a handscraping class from Richard King, whom many of you will recognize as a frequent contributor over on the Machine Reconditioning forum. As an added bonus, the class was hosted by Keith Rucker at his Tifton, Georgia barn shop. Arriving to class the first day, the only thing I knew about handscraping was what I had seen on YouTube. After the end of five days, I feel very confident I can make really flat surfaces as first step toward future machine restorations. I won't claim to know all the ins and outs of precision alignment yet, but I do have the skills to scrape the occasional dovetailed way and tapered gib.

    I'm still short a few of the tools needed to be effective at scraping like a good surface plate and a power scraper, but those will come as soon as I get past the investment required to finish this lathe project. All in good time.

    Here's a short video clip taken by John Saunders of the NYC CNC YouTube channel during the class. Although I'm using a small handscraping tool here working over my compound slide, you can hear the small army of Biax power scrapers running in the background.

    Last edited by thomasutley; 09-13-2017 at 08:50 AM.

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  7. #285
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    Once home from the scraping class, it was full steam ahead with headstock reassembly. There are dozens upon dozens of headstock rebuild threads right here on PM, and I don't feel like I have much to add to the process that hasn't already been covered thoroughly. What I can show are a few short clips doing the initial runout checks on the spindle. Considering the age of the components involved, and the fact that I did nothing much more than clean and lube the parts after painting, I'm very happy with the results. I may still need to tweak the main bearing shims a bit once I start making heavier cuts, but at this point she's behaving very well including mesh on the backgear assembly.

    1943 South Bend Lathe Spindle Runout - YouTube

    1943 South Bend Lathe Spindle Checkout - YouTube

    1943 South Bend Lathe Backgear Assembly - YouTube

  8. #286
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    Once the mechanicals were to a point I could move on, I started tackling the electronics. My goals for the electrical stuff was twofold:

    1) Make it safe to use, including e-stops at each end
    2) Keep as much of the original War-era styling as possible

    Adding a VFD with variable speed control along with emergency stop switches does not readily lend itself to Art Deco styling cues. After some head scratching, and inventorying all my leftover parts, I realized I could use an extra front underdrive door to access a NEMA-type enclosure that would keep chips and coolant away from the sparky parts. It took a couple of weeks camping out on eBay to find the right box at the right price, but I found a really ugly enclosure that fit the door and we were off to the races.

    First I had to fabricate a custom mounting bracket for the box. I'm no welder, but with some trial and error along with a half a can of Bondo and some textured paint prep, it's tough to tell from a distance that the bracket is not a cast part.

    elx-mount-01.jpg elx-mount-02.jpg elx-mount-03.jpg elx-mount-04.jpg elx-mount-05.jpg

    And after some initial component layout on the backplane, this is more or less what the inside of the box looks like:

    1943 South Bend Lathe Electronics Enclosure - YouTube

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  10. #287
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    With the basic electrical enclosure settled, I could move on to how to mount the switch box for the user. I toyed with several different locations, but kept coming back to right behind the chuck similar to how the factory did it. The fact that these flat belt machines have a hinged cover over the headstock cone pulley really gets in the way of mounting controls on or above the headstock where they would be on a modern machine.

    In order to tie the pipe/arm to the controls housing, I used my newfound welding skills to fabricate more faux cast parts. This time I made up some mounting flanges through which the pipe would pass and allow for really secure mounting. The goal here was to make the switches at the top of the pipe feel nice and solid with no flex. Cantilevering the pipe all the way down to the bottom inside of the box really helps in that regard.

    Not shown in the photos below is the step where I had to cut the bent pipe in the middle and shorten the spacing between the two vertical portions. Otherwise, it would have pushed the controls too far out beyond the chuck, and I felt it was better to pull it back out of the path of slinging oil that inevitably marks the plane of the chuck lubrication zone.

    elx-pipe-01.jpg elx-pipe-02.jpg elx-pipe-03.jpg elx-pipe-04.jpg elx-pipe-06.jpg

  11. #288
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    While drilling the through holes in the faux cast mounting flanges, I realized the original tailstock quill had seen better days. Ted just happened to have a NOS quill to tempt me. I really didn't have to think too hard about it; I just paid the man and it was worth every penny. Taper drills now work without spinning.

    Bonus: The later model replacement quill is hardened, too.

    BTW, I'm planning to bore the original tailstock quill out to the next Morse taper size bigger once I feel confident doing so. Once in a while you need to make big holes, and I think it would be nice to have the oversized quill around for jobs like that.

    I'm including a couple before & after shots showing just how rough the old quill had gotten. Easy to see why it wasn't hold any torque on the taper drills.

    replacement-tailstock-quill-01.jpg replacement-tailstock-quill-02.jpg replacement-tailstock-quill-03.jpg replacement-tailstock-quill-04.jpg replacement-tailstock-quill-05.jpg
    Last edited by thomasutley; 09-13-2017 at 08:55 AM.

  12. #289
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    At this point, I invested a fair amount of time getting comfortable with the VFD and its capabilities. The only advice I can offer here for anyone is read the manual, then read it again, then read it again six more times. Eventually the parameter settings will start to make sense, and keep in mind some manuals are much better than others. Mine is pretty bad with a lot lost in translation. The other advice I can offer is to reset the machine back to factory settings if you're starting with a used VFD -- you really don't know what someone else might have programmed into the unit before you got it and this is not the part of your build where you want to be surprised.

    Once I knew more or less how it worked and which features I could control from the front of the machine, I set about designing a controls enclosure and sourcing the rest of the controls. I toyed with including a digital spindle tach in the controls cluster but as much as I wanted to have a tach, the segmented LED options out there just didn't feel right on a machine this old.

    After some web research and a several phone calls, I worked out a concept for integrating an analog automotive style dial face tach with a "Hall Effect" sensor capable of reading the bullgear teeth as they rotate. It sounds a lot more complicated than it turned out to be, so please feel free to contact me for details. It might even warrant a separate thread for anyone else who is interested. Here are the basics:

    Cherry, a fairly well known German sensor manufacturer, makes a very compact geartooth sensor intended for auto, marine, and industrial gear motion sensing. The sensor costs about $40 delivered from Amazon along with a "pull-up" resistor you'll need corresponding to the input voltage you use to power it. Since I'm using an automotive tach that runs on 12VDC, I'm powering the geartooth sensor off the same DIN power supply.

    Speedhut, a Utah-based company that manufactures high quality aftermarket automotive gauges, offers a diesel tachometer that's user programmable for scaling of a pulsed or sinusoidal input like that produced by the Cherry sensor. Including the custom artwork fees, the total bill for the tach came in at around $160 delivered.

    The little 12V power supply set me back another $15. All in, you're looking at around $225 for everything you need to display your spindle speed. That's more than some of the LED kits out there, but I hope you'll agree when you see the video below that the cost difference is worth it on a vintage machine like this.

    It took a few weeks to work out the custom artwork for the dial and get into the production queue at Speedhut, but once the new tach arrived it took only about half an hour to get it reading correctly. It's very accurate from near-zero all the way up to full scale as you'll see below. For calibration, I used a handheld laser tach available on Amazon for about $20 (wish I had bought that little gem years ago!).

    BTW: You'll see from the video that I chose to set the dial face full scale reading to 1800RPM. This equates to a hair more than 90Hz coming out of the VFD where I capped it for safety of the drive motor. I'm totally open to a fact-based discussion about what the maximum RPM for a war-era 16" spindle ought to be; however, before anyone jumps down my throat about how it can't run faster than 900RPM without self-destructing, I can assure you the lathe has run for over an hour at 1500RPM under no-load conditions without getting hot at the bearing caps.

    That high speed trial, and my research online about hydrodynamic lubrication of plain bearings, make me think I should be able to run the spindle well above 1000RPM in short sprints without risking the spindle bearings or a 10" chuck disintegrating into shrapnel. Obviously, the heavier the cut, the slower she'll need to run to stay below the breakdown limitations of the spindle bearing oil. If you have strong feelings either way on the spindle speed limitations, I'd like to hear about it.

    In the meantime, here's a video clip from the spindle tach prove-in. Not shown in the video is my mile wide grin once I realized it was going to work out. Don't mind the flat belt noise -- that's the belt that came with the machine and will soon be replaced with something quieter.

    1943 South Bend Lathe Custom Spindle Tachometer Testing - YouTube
    Last edited by thomasutley; 09-13-2017 at 08:59 AM.

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    The final step in the modernization of the electronics is to package them in a way that is convenient for the user and safe from the standpoint of electric shock. I decided early on that I didn't want any mains voltages outside of the big electrical box on the back of the machine. Since the VFD uses low voltage DC for all remote controls, this was not a problem assuming any switched accessories, such as a work light or coolant pump, are run off relays to isolate the switches from the high voltage loops.

    Below are a few pictures showing the evolution over time of a housing to hold the up front user controls. Using standard industrial 22mm Telemecanique/Schneider Electric switches for ease of replacement in the future, the switch blocks are quite large relative to the knobs you can see from the outside. This ultimately drove me to a larger housing than I might have wanted. Later, adding the dial tachometer body into the mix made it larger still. The end product would up about 8" x 10" x 3" thick sitting on top of the Schedule 40 1-1/4" steel mounting pipe.

    img_2273.jpg img_2469.jpgimg_4124.jpgimg_5174.jpgimg_5173.jpg

    I tried at each step of the progression to imagine what a South Bend Co. machine designer might have come up with back in the late 30s/early 40s had someone told him to incorporate run & job switches, a light switch, a coolant pump switch, a variable speed knob, and an analog tach. There are a couple things I could have spent more design time on in hindsight, but overall I think it fits the style of the machine without being so modern as to ruin the styling that so many of us appreciate. I'm expecting some strong reactions from SBL traditionalists, but I hope you'll at least appreciate my attempt at making all the new stuff blend in.

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    The final switch box layout was modeled in Autodesk Fusion360, an integrated CAD/CAM/CAE product that's free to users making less than $100K/year from the use of the product. I had the good fortune to meet John Saunders from NYC CNC at the scraping class earlier in the year. He's a very active proponent of Fusion and it feeds a lot of the content of his YouTube channel. He was gracious enough to offer to mill the casting patterns once I had the CAD models ready, and the videos of him carving the high density urethane material patterns have just posted (links below).

    The patterns for the switch housing and cover, along with a third pattern I provided for a tach sensor cover on top of the bullgear, are all at Cattail Foundry in Pennsylvania as I write this. I hope to have the cast iron parts back within the next 2-3 weeks.

    I'll be posting more detail in the future about making the etched brass switch legends that fit into the recesses around each control. I chose to recess them so I wouldn't have to use drive rivets to pin them in place. I think the recesses will also help avoid them getting damaged over time.

    img_5633.jpg img_5344.jpg img_6069.jpg fullsizerender.jpg

    Pattern machining video links from John's YouTube channel:

    Machining a Southbend Lathe Casting Pattern - Part 1 WW162 - YouTube
    Machining a Southbend Lathe Casting Pattern - Part 2 WW163 - YouTube

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    As mentioned above, there is a third custom casting required to complete the system -- a protective cover for the geartooth sensor on top of the bullgear.

    I hope I don't make too many of you traditionalists cringe when you see my approach, but putting the sensor up on top made a lot more sense to me than drilling all the way through the headstock casting somewhere else. It's very conspicuous where I put it, but it's the least tear-up to the original machine that I could come up with. If you hate it, I understand.

    The photos show the pattern as-received from the 3D printer in ABS plastic. There was a fair amount of work required to smooth the surface into a usable casting pattern. My feelings about 3DP parts are mixed, but without calling in another favor such as John did for me on the larger patterns above, this was the most economical way to get a short run casting pattern for a situation like this. Also, I obviously have more time than money.

    All three parts will require some machining once the castings arrive. The main switch housing requires fastener holes to attach the back cover as well as a big longitudinal bore for the mounting pipe arm coming in from the bottom. The tach sensor cover requires a couple of fasteners to secure it to the bullgear cover.

    The bullgear cover also requires a 1/2" diameter hole for the sensor itself to pass through.

    img_6050.jpg img_6051.jpg img_6059.jpg img_6063.jpg

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  17. #293
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    As usual, excellent work and write up Tom! I like it. When are you going to make some parts for me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nt1953 View Post
    As usual, excellent work and write up Tom! I like it. When are you going to make some parts for me?
    Let's put spindle tachs on your big 18" and 24" South Bends, Neil!

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    21" and 24" Lathes.
    How slooow caaaan yoouuu goooooo?

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    I think there is a cool and practical through-line blend of new and old in the piece.

    Looking back, South Bend seemed to have had a keen sense not only of innovative and useful accessories and options, but also one of ergonomic design which harmoniously retained kind of signature stylistic lines and curves in it’s castings.

    If the control panel is rock solid in it’s construction and functionality, and practical and efficient in it's use, then at the end of the day striving to make it look the part is in my opinion the South Bend way.

    I can't wait to see it finished.

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  24. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by nt1953 View Post
    21" and 24" Lathes.
    How slooow caaaan yoouuu goooooo?
    Our 14.5 with vfd in back gear has 2 modes....RPM and MPR....Minutes Per Revolution. ..

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk

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