Removing the crossfeed dial from a Heavy 10

flathead4 · Jan 24, 2009

I am trying to remove the graduated dial from the C.F. screw, but it won't slide off. The little brass shoe was jammed tight in the thumb screw hole and I carefully drilled most of it out. Now I can turn the dial fairly free on the sleeve, but can't pull it off. Can anyone tell me how to get this off? The shaft is in pretty bad shape already, but I'd rather not tear up the dial anymore more than it is.

Tom

Picture of the stuck dial

jim rozen · Jan 24, 2009

Hmm. Something's amiss.

My first approach would be to hold the hex of the crossfeed bushing
in a vise with brass jaws. Then I would put the round nut back on the
end of the screw, to protect the threads. Then I would gently tap
on the end of the screw and nut with my smallest brass hammer.

If that didn't work, I'd make up a steel drift with a hole in the
end, that would pass over the threads on the end of the screw,
but would still bear on the flat part on the end of the shaft.
And use my next-larger brass hammer.

Jim

flathead4 · Jan 24, 2009

Jim,

Normally the dial should come right off when you remove the hand crank, right? I tried tapping on the end of the screw, but it won't move. Should I be able to tap the screw back throught the sleave?

Tom

swells · Jan 24, 2009

Tom,
If there was not a steel drive pin in the thumb screw hole sitting on top
of the brass shoe, it's probably been replaced with a long shoe. They will mushroom
at the top into the threads sometimes. Try to get some type of cleaning fluid, carb
cleaner, something and blow as much crud out as you can with it. Maybe it will seep
between the dial and dial bushing as you turn it. The pin "D" in the ATT212 below might
be hitting/jamming the dial also. I would try Jim's method first after the cleaner, this is the
way I remove them when stuck, also I use the center drilled hole to use a center punch.
If that does not work, put the screw in a collet on your 405 and with tailstock center in,
hold the dial and let it wear the shoe a little as you shoot the cleaner in, and work it
forward.

http://www.wswells.com/crossfeed_screw/SBL_Crossfeed_Install_ATT212.jpg

Steve

swells · Jan 24, 2009

woops....I forgot about the D pin holding the shaft from going through the bushing...
you can't tap it down and out...the bearing sleeve will stop it.
You need to work the dial off the sleeve to the front.

Steve

jim rozen · Jan 24, 2009

"D pin?"

I thought there was only a sleeve behind the dial, and it was a slip fit
over the shaft...

Been a while since I've had mine apart.

Go easy with the hammer because the man probably knows of what
he speaks.

Possibly a split brass fixture to hold the dial by the OD, with a pin to
engage the screw hole. Then tap on the end of the shaft.

Jim

swells · Jan 24, 2009

I didn't state that very well Jim...the location "D"
in the ATT212 print is the bearing sleeve retaining pin.
I have read in other posts that some do not pin this sleeve?
I'm not sure the dial would work correctly without it pinned.
I have always installed as per the print. I use the pin to
hold the sleeve for proper bearing fit, as I thought it was intended.
I kiss off the rear of this sleeve untill I feel the proper surface fit
to the thrust balls in the bearing. This pin and the hole drilled for it
is one of the most common problems when working with prior user
disassembly.

Steve

swells · Jan 25, 2009

Yes, holding the dial, you could drive the shaft and sleeve down.

steve

flathead4 · Jan 25, 2009

The dial is off. I made custom holding device to restrain the dial and drove the screw and sleeve out. I blew a lot of crud out of it but the sleeve was flared (from a previous attempt to remove the dial?) and I think that was what was holding it on.

Dial off

I have another question: Is the D pin in the sleeve tapered or straight? I can't seem to get it to move more than a fraction in either direction.

Another challenge surfaced with this assembly yesterday. Once I got all the crud off it, I discovered that the bushing has a 360 degree crack between the nut and the threads. I don't see why I can't cut the damaged section off, turn and thread a new piece and braze it on. Looks like I'll have to make a new sleeve, too.

Bushing crack

Tom

flathead4 · Jan 25, 2009

Steve,

I read your post above about fitting the sleeve. If I am able to reuse my screw, I'll be stuck with pin hole so does that mean I should make the new sleeve a little long and then shrorten it to achieve proper bearing fit?

Tom

swells · Jan 25, 2009

Yes, the bushing looks like i't taken an impact to crack it, these
are cast so it might be just as easy to make a complete bushing.
the thread is non standard, I believe, Start at .780 and let's say
+.000 and -.005 for the thread. .775 works for me.

The bearing sleeve pin is a straight .125 I try to get the hole right
because you have to take it in and out a couple of times while fitting
the bearing clearance and facing it or lapping it. I've seen them way out of
center line, and had to mark them for position. If the hole is tight, ream it
so you can take it apart without a fight. Set it in a v-block that has a deep
slot to drive it out, or as I do, I have a brass block with holes drilled at that location.

The torn threads are caused by the oil screw in the saddle where the bushing mounts,
often this screw is not removed when the bushing is unscrewed, it mills the threads
down as the bushing turns out.

Steve

swells · Jan 25, 2009

Yes Tom, after you make the new bearing sleeve and have new bearings and flats in,
make a little round retaining piece that takes the place of the handle that will hold
slight tension on the sleeve/bearings, I would rather be tight here than loose.
(I use an old handle cut down) This piece holds the sleeve as you drill the new hole.
I make the sleeve a little longer in the front, as you will face this off as you progress to
the dial fitting as per ATT212. Move up or down the shaft to avoid drilling close to the old
hole and rotate 90 degrees. Once you have your hole drilled and reamed and the pin will
tap out easy, then do the final fit of the sleeve rear face to the bearing flat for clearance,
the finish fit bushing spins free oiled with no lash. The last fits are the dial collar to bushing
clearance, which is set by facing the rear inside of the collar to the sleeve bearing, and
then the handle to dial collar.

Steve

jim rozen · Jan 25, 2009

This is a very fussy job so listen to what the man has to say. I had completely
forgotten about the T-shaped sleeve (the one the pin goes through) because
it's been years since I've been inside one of these.

I personally would fabricate a new bushing from steel as suggested, that would
actually be easier I think than trying to repair the old one. If you do go
the repair route you will have to try to patch in a new rear section, by boring the
existing front section out to take a piece of stock pressed in from the back.
You might have trouble brazing or sliver soldering the part in place because
the front part may be oil soaked, but green locktite could do a tolerably good
job. I would consider putting the patch part on rough, and then finish turning,
and threading it, after it was all in assembly so it would be totally concentric
with the larger front section.

The T-shaped sleeve is there so the dial can float free, totally. On the older
machines the axial force from the cranking the cross slide is taken directly
by the dial on the bushing interface when cranking in one direction.

Jim

flathead4 · Jan 25, 2009

This is a very fussy job...

From Steve's description of the task, I'll probably just make a couple sleeves to start with for when I screw up the first one (or two).

The compound doesn't have a sleeve because it usually doesn't see the stesses that the crossslide does?

Thanks for the info. Looks like I've got some work (fun!) ahead of me. At this point, I'm hoping I can salvage the screw. I don't have the means to make a new spline myself (or could I make it on my lathe with the right fixture? Hmm). As it is the threads on the crank end are a mess. But I can cut them off and drill and tap for a threaded piece.

Tom

swells · Jan 25, 2009

If Ted is reading here, I would like to know if this mount bushing thread size
did in fact carry on with the later heavy tens and if you know if it is .780 or .775
This was the old O series bushing thread size is why I ask, just want to know if I ever
ever find that print that was posted in another older thread, I have lost mine on the shop
PC...grrrr.

Tom, there are some sleeve and dial pictures parked on my site, I think they are under:
photos/LD/
they are for a Workshop, but the idea is the same.
I believe these run from 1-13, so just replave the number in the link with the next number jpg.
http://www.wswells.com/photos/LD/1.JPG

flathead4 · Jan 25, 2009

Steve,

I was going to ask how you drilled the sleeve and shaft, but your pictures tell the story. I guess the first thing I need to do is finish my tool post drill.

Tom

SBLatheman · Jan 26, 2009

swells said:
If Ted is reading here, I would like to know if this mount bushing thread size
did in fact carry on with the later heavy tens and if you know if it is .780 or .775

Steve,
The tap I have for the saddle says 25/32-16 NS. I measured a bushing, and it was .780"
Ted

flathead4 · Jan 26, 2009

So I need to turn that portion of the bushing to no less than .780 and thread it 16 TPI, right? Is there anything special about engraving/stamping the witness mark on the new bushing, other than at 0 degrees to the bed with the bushing screwed in?

Tom

swells · Jan 26, 2009

Thanks Ted,
Denny had given that measurement to me several times, and I had it on my print,
I'll print a new one if I can't find it. I had several bushings that once I plunge cut
to wipe the threads somehow the threads ended up at .775 haha...don't know how
that happened, but they worked just fine.

Yes Tom, that's correct. On the bushing if by chance the 0 is off center, you can spin the
mark by facing the back of the bushing that meets the saddle.
Try to align and mark the oil hole after you test fit your threads, then remove and drill.

I've always wanted to make this bushing in two parts just to see how it would work.
Settting the front on the shaft of the threaded bushing with 680 loctite and finishing
turning after cure.

Steve

flathead4 · Jan 26, 2009

I've been considering doing it in two parts. I'm thinking it will be a lot of passes on my little 405 to make it from one piece of steel. Not so bad if I can start with some 1" stock for the shaft.

Tom

Removing the crossfeed dial from a Heavy 10

Hot Rolled

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Titanium

Hot Rolled

Stainless

Hot Rolled

Similar threads