d1-4 camlock spindle adapter to MT

MeanMachine1980 · Feb 1, 2018

Im sure this has been gone over many many times but all I keep getting is conflicting information. I want to hear from someone that has the same lathe and spindle as me and see what they use to get a Morse taper center in the headstock spindle.

I have a 1976 southbend 13. D1-4 camlock spindle large bore.

Any help is appreciated.

steve-l · Feb 1, 2018

MeanMachine1980 said:
Im sure this has been gone over many many times but all I keep getting is conflicting information. I want to hear from someone that has the same lathe and spindle as me and see what they use to get a Morse taper center in the headstock spindle.

I have a 1976 southbend 13. D1-4 camlock spindle large bore.

Any help is appreciated.

You don't need an adapter. Your spindle, like all lathes, has a taper at its nose. Now, there are all kinds of tapers in use, but most lathes equipped with a D1-4 spindle will have a MT 5 taper ground into the spindle. These tapers are normally used for test bars, dead centers and collet draw tubes. If for instance, you wish to use a MT 3 dead center, you will have to use an MT reducer from 5 to 3. Most lathes are delivered with these standard from the factory. You sound a bit new, so I highly recommend you acquire the South Bend book "How to run a lathe".

Monarchist · Feb 1, 2018

MeanMachine1980 said:
Im sure this has been gone over many many times but all I keep getting is conflicting information. I want to hear from someone that has the same lathe and spindle as me and see what they use to get a Morse taper center in the headstock spindle.

I have a 1976 southbend 13. D1-4 camlock spindle large bore.

Any help is appreciated.

What Steve said, with the addition that large tapers are long tapers, and most lathes use a shortened form of them in the HS spindle - more often than not taken from the large end, but sometimes a bit further back.

Another possibility for some makers was to use a "half size" taper in between two standard ones so as make best use of the "meat" their spindle had available.

Either way, the factory would have offered rather short adapters, bore taper to whatever taper they used in the same lathe's TS, no more than one size up, most commonly.

Seek and you may find such an adapter used, or - given it is the popular SB - being made new by someone serving the user community. Making your own is another option.

MeanMachine1980 · Feb 1, 2018

Hello Steve

Do you have the lathe Im talking about? How sure are you that is a MT5 spindle. I keep hearing that it is a proprietary taper that southbend made. I guess Ill just have to measure it when I get the lathe put back together. I was hoping to hear from someone that specifically has this spindle and what they use.
thanks

johnoder · Feb 1, 2018

Next time the spindle tooling is off measure big end of taper. MT5 will be very close to 1.75"

If not very close to 1.75, is not MT5

ASME/ASA B5.9 Spindle Noses gives no preferred size for D1-4", and merely states 1.75 max hole. It adds that at this max hole size, cam bores will break into spindle bore

steve-l · Feb 1, 2018

MeanMachine1980 said:
Hello Steve

Do you have the lathe Im talking about? How sure are you that is a MT5 spindle. I keep hearing that it is a proprietary taper that southbend made. I guess Ill just have to measure it when I get the lathe put back together. I was hoping to hear from someone that specifically has this spindle and what they use.
thanks

I'm not sure, but it's a very good guess. Like Monarchist says, it'll be a short taper. Measure it and see.

iwananew10K · Feb 1, 2018

Its not MT5...I don't think any SB made in Indiana used MT5

Ted could say for sure, but I suspect it is the same SB taper as all their large(1.375")bore lathes....which is the taper of MT3 but bigger than a standard MT3

Ask Ted.

[email protected]

thomasutley · Feb 1, 2018

As stated in different ways above, there are two dimensions that determine what you need: the taper angle and the gage line diameter along that conical surface.

Assume for purposes of this discussion that the gage line diameter is the large end diameter of the adapter you need (technically it’s a bit smaller, but won’t matter for what you’re trying to do).

Don’t assume a taper angle based solely on a diameter at the opening. You’re looking for an angle and a pair of diameters along that cone.

Monarchist · Feb 1, 2018

MeanMachine1980 said:
Hello Steve

Do you have the lathe Im talking about? How sure are you that is a MT5 spindle. I keep hearing that it is a proprietary taper that southbend made. I guess Ill just have to measure it when I get the lathe put back together. I was hoping to hear from someone that specifically has this spindle and what they use.
thanks

Cease "hearing", start googling. Most things SB were "volume production", highly unlikely you have an R&D one-off. Other folk HAVE these.

Packrat mind sez you'll find a 5 1/2 MT. Which shouldn't exist, but SB was not the only one to need it, so no, you won't find MT drill shanks for it, but yes collet adapters and HS adapters to #3 or #2 MT for use of inexpensive stock DC w/o need of an inch or two greater hang-out.

Which, BTW is the penalty I pay when using an easily-purchased "proper" #12 Jarno centre in a 10EE instead of THEIR stub adapter. Loss of nearly 2" of already-scarce 20" c-to-c daylight.

Now - if measuring is difficult - and it IS, because you will almost certainly not be on the published "big end" gage line, just purchase something low-risk CHEAP.

With a 5MT drill press, and one lathe that uses 5MT in BOTH HS & TS (Cazeneuve, not SB), I have these goods aplenty. Sleeves are cheap and cheerful. 5 MT drills? Don't even ask!

A 5 MT to 4 MT or 5 MT to 3 MT sleeve, even if Chinese made so long as brand-new, should do yah as a test for fit.

A "thought to be right" SB collet adapter, used, you can easily sell-on if not a match for your spindle.

SBLatheman · Feb 1, 2018

steve-l said:
I'm not sure, but it's a very good guess. Like Monarchist says, it'll be a short taper. Measure it and see.

No guessing allowed :nono:

It is the South Bend taper like Chad said, but for the D1-4 camloc spindles, the sleeve was made longer to extend the center further away from the nose because the drive plate is much thicker to accommodate the camloc design.

iwananew10K said:
Its not MT5...I don't think any SB made in Indiana used MT5

Ted could say for sure, but I suspect it is the same SB taper as all their large(1.375")bore lathes....which is the taper of MT3 but bigger than a standard MT3

Ask Ted.

[email protected]

The FOURTEEN made in South Bend with the D1-4 spindle has a #5MT spindle taper.

Ted

Monarchist · Feb 1, 2018

SBLatheman said:
The FOURTEEN made in South Bend with the D1-4 spindle has a #5MT spindle taper.

PM at work, doing what it does best. Thanks, Ted!

MeanMachine1980 · Feb 1, 2018

Hello

Ive been googling, thats where I keep finding conflicting info. I just need to run into someone with a 13" southbend like mine with the D1-4 spindle and see what they use for an adapter if there is any? Shouldnt be this difficult. So far with all the information that I have gathered I believe it to be the "propiertery southbend taper". Which means Ill need the adapter...Then it will be where to buy that.

Derek Smalls · Feb 1, 2018

I'd start right here.
South Bend Lathe Heavy 1 1L D1-4 Cam Lock Spindle Sleeve MT2 Adapter | eBay

Well actually, before paying what they typically want for these things I'd make one myself out of 4140 preHT or some such material.
OR, even better, simply chuck a short piece of bar with a shoulder against the jaws so it can't slip back in the chuck and turn a 60* center point on it and use that for "between center" work. This method is great, center runs dead true every time (after a quick touch up), it's free, and you use one of thew chuck jaws to drive the dog so you don't even need a drive plate.

Monarchist · Feb 1, 2018

MeanMachine1980 said:
Hello

Ive been googling, thats where I keep finding conflicting info. I just need to run into someone with a 13" southbend like mine with the D1-4 spindle and see what they use for an adapter if there is any? Shouldnt be this difficult. So far with all the information that I have gathered I believe it to be the "propiertery southbend taper". Which means Ill need the adapter...Then it will be where to buy that.

You'd save some time on that 'run into' part if you checked SBLatheman's posts and grokked that he just MIGHT "know his Southbends".

kitno455 · Feb 1, 2018

Yes, other than the small collet 13" lathe (which used an MT4 in the spindle), all SBs use the pitch of the MT3, but vary the bore size as required. So, you cannot use a generic adapter generally.

But, I'll be honest- you don't need one, unless you are working at the length limit of the machine. Turn a shoulder on a slug of steel, spin it round so the shoulder stops it from sliding back in the chuck jaws, and turn a 60 degree point on it. Use a chuck jaw to drive the dog.

allan

MeanMachine1980 · Feb 1, 2018

Yea, that will probably be what Ill do. dont have to change chucks as often then OR knock out centers and adapters either

SLK001 · Feb 2, 2018

I'm currently making some of the spindle sleeves to fit my 10L with 2.25" x 8TPI spindle. If you're interested, I could custom make one for you. Here's what I shoot for:

I am doing sleeves both for MT#2 and MT#3.

As for the spindle taper, I MATCH the taper in MY spindle with my taper attachment. From what I know, this taper is used in ALL 10L's made. My adapters extend approximately 0.200 beyond the mouth of the spindle.

gzig5 · Feb 2, 2018

I've got a MT2 adapter with the 10L I just picked up. It's dinged up but I can pull it out and get dimensions from it if needed. Let me know.

Jterps · Feb 24, 2018

13” D4-1 internal taper

Hi
I have a 13” with the D4-1 and also trying to figure out what adapter to use for 5C setup. My serial number has an X for spindle type. That designates “ special” whatever that means. I’d not MT and I see reference in the serial number decoding info to a SB proprietary taper. Has this been confirmed. If you have any new info please let me know and what I can tell you about my machine.

MeanMachine1980 said:
Im sure this has been gone over many many times but all I keep getting is conflicting information. I want to hear from someone that has the same lathe and spindle as me and see what they use to get a Morse taper center in the headstock spindle.

I have a 1976 southbend 13. D1-4 camlock spindle large bore.

Any help is appreciated.

Derek Smalls · Feb 24, 2018

Jterps said:
Hi
I have a 13” with the D4-1 and also trying to figure out what adapter to use for 5C setup. My serial number has an X for spindle type. That designates “ special” whatever that means. I’d not MT and I see reference in the serial number decoding info to a SB proprietary taper. Has this been confirmed. If you have any new info please let me know and what I can tell you about my machine.

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