Heavy 10 good buy with bed wear?

BlwnGazkit · Mar 15, 2015

I have a local guy who wants to sell me his late father's old Heavy 10. Its a single tumbler gear box with a 36" bed and a Buck D1 3jaw chuck. No real other tooling besides a starrett indicator, which is unknown.

He started asking $900 and when Ilooked at it, the spindle had vertical play, the front V at the chuck has a ridge at the top, and the carriage was taken apart. After a thorough inspection, the spindle play was from a loose bearing cap, and it appears all of the carriage parts are there minus the 2 apron to saddle screws.

Given the state and wear, I declined to make an offer. Fast forward a month to now, and he's contacted Mr and wants it gone for $400.

Think this is a good buy?

I have a Rockwell 10", and while I'd rather have the Heavy 10, I don't want a major project or one that will be expensive to fix. My Rockwell has it's own issues, like an incorrect tailstock from a SB 10K...

mTeryk · Mar 15, 2015

BlwnGazkit said:
I have a local guy who wants to sell me his late father's old Heavy 10. Its a single tumbler gear box with a 36" bed and a Buck D1 3jaw chuck. No real other tooling besides a starrett indicator, which is unknown.

He started asking $900 and when Ilooked at it, the spindle had vertical play, the front V at the chuck has a ridge at the top, and the carriage was taken apart. After a thorough inspection, the spindle play was from a loose bearing cap, and it appears all of the carriage parts are there minus the 2 apron to saddle screws.

Given the state and wear, I declined to make an offer. Fast forward a month to now, and he's contacted Mr and wants it gone for $400.

Think this is a good buy?

I have a Rockwell 10", and while I'd rather have the Heavy 10, I don't want a major project or one that will be expensive to fix. My Rockwell has it's own issues, like an incorrect tailstock from a SB 10K...

Might be expensive, might not. Sure sounds like a project though. You'll have to decide if it will do the work you want it to with the bed wear it has. You don't mention how much wear it has in the lead and feed screws. That will cost you some money if there is significant wear. Take a good look inside the apron, probably a reason somebody had it apart and perhaps why they didn't finish the repair.

At 400 you might make your money back parting it out if necessary, but if it is totally clapped out, maybe not. Plus that's a lot of work to try and break even.

Teryk

kitno455 · Mar 15, 2015

mTeryk said:
Might be expensive, might not. Sure sounds like a project though. You'll have to decide if it will do the work you want it to with the bed wear it has. You don't mention how much wear it has in the lead and feed screws. That will cost you some money if there is significant wear. Take a good look inside the apron, probably a reason somebody had it apart and perhaps why they didn't finish the repair.

At 400 you might make your money back parting it out if necessary, but if it is totally clapped out, maybe not. Plus that's a lot of work to try and break even.

Teryk

A worn out lathe is not a good way to make money either fixing it or parting it. The first takes too much effort, and the last requires ignorant customers. So, the real question is what are you interested in doing? I got a free 10L which was absolutely trashed, and have spend a great deal of time and money bringing it back from the dead. However, I went into the deal with open eyes- I _wanted_ to do a small lathe rebuild, so I could learn about things like accuracy and hand scraping. If you are interested in that, and have a second lathe and milling machine to help you make repair parts, its a fun hobby, IMHO. However, if you are looking for a better lathe than your rockwell, I don't think a clapped out 10L is the best place to start.

allan

kgize · Mar 15, 2015

If you have no lathe at all - then buy it - if you can get it for 300 - you won't lose any $...
Then put it back together and use it and learn....
Do not get caught up in all the lathe 'rebuilds' you see here and other sites - put it back together best you can, lube her up, and just use it worn out or not - it will be the best learning experience and well worth 300-400$...After you learn to use a worn out lathe to make whatever you want to make - then when you stand behind a 'good' lathe - heaven befalls your soul...Looking for opinions - knock him down another 100 and buy it...
Edit - Ok..just re-read OP and see you already have a lathe....my opinion above was for those with nothing...still I'll let the statement stand even though you have a (small) lathe...

itsmeBernie · Mar 15, 2015

I started with a worn out 10L like that- I got it for free, but would have paid $400 for it, and as said above, maybe you could get it cheaper.

But I had no real lathe at that time. If you already have a Rockwell the same size, and are not in the mood to rebuild the 10L, I would pass. Or buy it and keep it for a beater, and for tool-post grinding etc?

Bernie

Abeship · Mar 15, 2015

Where in virginia? I might be interested if you decide to pass

stephen thomas · Mar 16, 2015

I don't like short bed lathes, but would be tempted to buy it to re-build just because of its condition. IOW plane the bed, etc. But not a paint and polish which wastes time and money. OTOH, paint and polish with no mechanical refurb other than assembly, will get the most $$$$ on re-sale.

You've already stated that a project is not interesting to you, so probably a pass. I have also learned for myself that when I buy projects like that because they are cheap "for later", later never really comes with any convenience, if at all. It just ends up being a pile of rusty parts taking up space.

If all the parts are there and un-broken, it is certainly worth $300 - $400. Assembled, he'd probably get at least 800 - 1200 on epay from some optimistic, unrealistic newbie. But you still have to assess the cost/utility/interest factors to your own personal situation.

All that said, I'm probably still dumb enough to buy it for the price if it was next door.

(One other thought, I have a regularly considered idea in the back of my mind to buy a cheap short bed to turn into a gear hobber. As if I'd ever really get the use or money's worth out of it, either :rolleyes5:

)

smt

BlwnGazkit · Mar 16, 2015

Thanks for the thoughts guys!

The main reasons I've been considering the Heavy 10 are:
- Price is cheap and it's 10 minutes from me.
- The heavy 10 has a larger spindle bore than my Rockwell. About 3/8" larger.
- The tailstock is correct. My Rockwell has a tailstock from a south bend 10k and even shimmed, the height is off a bit and makes things difficult.

The downsides are obviously that the bed is worn and I don't know the condition of the lead & feed screws since it was apart. I JUST finished refurbishing my Rockwell with some new compound & cross feed nuts and a general overhaul.

Decisions, decisions... The guy's in Richmond for whoever asked. Needs it gone this week he says.

xplodee · Mar 16, 2015

beds can be reground or compensated for. The lead screw could be an issue, I dunno I'm not an expert. The cross slide screw is cheap enough to replace along with the nut if it is a major issue. Sounds like a project though. I'm in the middle of one too. Close to two years now

stephen thomas · Mar 16, 2015

I just bought a leadscrew from Roton for a 54" bed 10K. They would be cheap enough, except IIRC the minimum is $80 (mine would have been ~$60, except i had to buy a bronze nut, not needed, just to get the price up). Anyway, point being you can probably get a new blank for less than $100, though you would then have to plane or mill the keyway, and turn the ends to fit the gear box drive, and the TS end bearing.

smt

patdoody · Mar 16, 2015

My heavy 10 has some noticeable wear in the ways.. like the machine must have been run alot but only in the first 6-8" of the bed its entire life. I spent 800 on mine but think I got a decent deal. Mine came with a taper attachment, 6" buck chuck, live center, collet closer, face plate, the rebuild kit sold on ebay, tail stock, center rest, and a bunch of odds and ends. I figure I paid 800 in tooling and got a lathe for free. I plan to one day tear it down entirely and swap out the bed for one with nicer ways. but for now it will meet my needs as a hobbyist.

BlwnGazkit · Mar 17, 2015

My largest problem is I'm new to lathes and machining.

As such, I don't really know how the wear will affect me while using the machine and I don't know how to compensate for it.

The amount of wear is unknown at the moment; I believe it's somewhere between 0.01 & 0.02" of wear at the worst place (going off memory). It is pretty visible and will readily catch the fingernail.

kitno455 · Mar 17, 2015

The bed wear is actually the least of the problems you are likely to encounter. At the cutting tool, that only produces cosine error as it rises and falls along the bed. The bigger problem is that a machine with significant bed wear will have lots of other worn places. Mine required re-bushing or re-shafting the entire apron, for instance. That said, SB spindles are typically very well built, and if this thing is really a camlock spindle, that is a nice bonus. Any lathe is better than no lathe

allan

itsmeBernie · Mar 17, 2015

Mine had that kind of wear and did great work. Allen makes a good point there.
Cam-lock spindle?? That's awesome!!! Sorry to try to sway you towards it.
Is the Rockwell 5C capable? This is the biggest plus for me.

Bernie

BlwnGazkit · Mar 17, 2015

My Rockwell is 4C capable and has a full set, the spindle pore is too small for 5C collets directly.

Man, this is a tough decision! If I didn't already have the Rockwell, this would be an easy purchase.

PaPaMitch · Mar 17, 2015

For me at $400 I wouldn't have to think about it. It would be on the way home.

BlwnGazkit · Mar 17, 2015

I really like my Rockwell so far, but being unable to align the tailstock on it is problematic. This makes the Heavy 10 much more attractive!

I'm new, brand new, to lathes and metal machining so that's part of the reason I'm on the fence about this.

I just bought the Rockwell 2 months ago and have almost completed an overhaul on it including new feed nuts and a cross feed screw. The one thing I can't fix on it is the tailstock being to low. The tailstock is from a 9" or 10" South Bend and is shimmed with 1/16" of sheet metal and is still a bit low for the Rockwell. The only way to fix it is mill a new base or find the correct tailstock; I don't have a mill and haven't found a tailstock.

The Rockwell has variable speeds from 50-1500 RPM without changing any belts and has virtually zero wear except in the never oiled cross feed screw, it was dry as a bone.

The Heavy 10 has a larger spindle bore, and I don't have to fix a tailstock problem. On the other hand, it needs to be reassembled and I don't know the wear conditions of the feed screws. It also doesn't have a thread dial.

My intended use is difficult to say... Immediately, I have a few firearm suppressor parts planned as well as some barrel threading and misc. auto parts I need for an old project car.

xplodee · Mar 17, 2015

If the Rockwell is working out for you, another option would be to spend a hundred or two on a proper tail stock. For $400 though, if you have the time I'd buy the Heavy 10 and part it out. The spindle should be worth about 250 on its own.

stephen thomas · Mar 17, 2015

Seems like "barrel threading" would fit through the Heavy 10 spindle a little easier?

OTOH, kind of a toss up whether is more work to use a spider or an extra 4 jaw on the outboard end with the barrel through a spindle, or run the barrel in a steady with the muzzle in a 4Jaw or on a center?

smt

BlwnGazkit · Mar 17, 2015

xplodee said:
If the Rockwell is working out for you, another option would be to spend a hundred or two on a proper tail stock. For $400 though, if you have the time I'd buy the Heavy 10 and part it out. The spindle should be worth about 250 on its own.

I wouldn't mind a bit of cash on a proper tailstock for my Rockwell... I don't have any idea where to find one.

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