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Thread: Heavy 10 Restoration

  1. #1
    bradjacob's Avatar
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    Default Heavy 10 Restoration

    Hello everyone. Been looking on this forum for a while and finally got me a heavy 10 this past Halloween.

    A little bit about me: In high school, my career path was to be a machinist. I excelled in metal shop and was lucky to have a school that taught Machine Shop in my senior year. I wound up becoming a carpenter, then computer-guy, but the love for machining still burns like a fury.

    So lately, I've been into restoring old Stanley hand planes and found it really addictive. Here's a quick read if you're interested in seeing my work: Stanley Bailey Plane Restoration #3: No. 5, Type 18 - by BradJacob @ LumberJocks.com ~ woodworking community

    So, back to the lathe... I was looking on good ole Craig's List and found a bunch of SB lathes. So me being a big "Pawn Stars" fan, I thought I'd throw out some low-ball email offers. I got a call back the next day on a heavy-10 in my neighborhood. It was listed at $800. I spoke with the owner and drove out to see it. It was in rough shape. For starters, someone painted most of it with gray primer. The belt was snapped and there was rust on the spindle and the carriage was hard to move. Handles were stuck, etc, etc...

    I asked him what he was looking to get out of it. He stated the price in the ad ($800), so I stated all that was wrong and how much work would be involved with restoration. Then I offered $400. We went back and forth and settled on $450. At last! A 1942 Heavy-10 in VERY restorable condition was mine

    Since I forgot to snap a picture when I got it home, here is the Craig's List photo. And some of the assemblies:


















    Here's all the rusted tooling (looks like I'll need a 3-jaw chuck):


    Ok, enough with the boring stuff. Onto the restoration! I disassembled the machine into it's separate assemblies. I've read through most of the restoration threads and learned quite a bit about what this will be like. I thought I'd start at the bottom with the base and work my way up. But due to the sheer weight of the bottom motor cabinet, I opted to begin with the QCGB.


    What a mess this thing was. No real rust problems here, just a ton of caked on crud.




    I got most of it taken apart, but hit a snag. I don't know how to remove the two main shafts? Any guidance, or threads would be greatly appreciated.

    Last edited by bradjacob; 12-10-2013 at 08:12 AM. Reason: Oversize images -- please see guidelines

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    knudsen's Avatar
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    Default

    What a price! That looks very repairable to me. Light surface rust is not a problem. I haven't had my single lever QC gear box apart yet, but I think I have some info on it somewhere. I'll look for it and PM you if I have something that details getting those shafts out.

  3. #3
    Dennis Turk's Avatar
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    On a single tumbler gear box the Christmas tree set of gears there is a nut on the operator side of the shaft or right next to the small gear. There is usually a small pin that has been installed though the nut to hold it in place. The pin must be driven out and then you can start working the nut lose. Its a flat at a time as there is not much room to work and you will need a very thin wrench.

    As to the upper gear set and shaft. If you can leave it in and clean it up in place do so as that shaft is a bitch to get out and even worse putting it back in. There are a bunch of little felts under the sliding and free rotating gears. The large gear on the banjo side is a press fit and they used a pin for a key. This one you have to jury rig up some sort of fixture to put this shaft back in. I have done several and its a real bugger to do.

    Turk

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    ibgolfr's Avatar
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    Default Single lever SB 10L gear box

    Brad

    Nice find. I have provided you a link in the South Bend Yahoo Forums under South Bend Heavy 10 files. There are two Heavy Forums that you should join because they are a warehouse of information, tips and advise--plus all the members are willing to help out any way they can.


    Dennis T is right and he and I talked about this particular subject when I had my box apart and was reassembling it. Generally it is pretty straight forward if you just follow how things came apart--backwards. But there is as Dennis indicated that is a real bear. I was able to reassemble this fairly well once Dennis and i discussed it--he is a big help at almost anything.

    If you have any questions please feel free to give me a shout. I wil try and jog the old memory and help out. By the way, if you do go to the Forum sites, my 10L is pictured on the regular Heavy 10 Forum as the Lathe of the month.

    Eric

    http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/kObSTEv...Gear%20Box.pdf

    Here are the links to the Forums if you need them

    http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...dheavy10files/

    http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendheavy10/
    Last edited by ibgolfr; 11-04-2010 at 09:17 AM. Reason: added link

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    knudsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Turk View Post
    As to the upper gear set and shaft. If you can leave it in and clean it up in place do so as that shaft is a bitch to get out and even worse putting it back in. There are a bunch of little felts under the sliding and free rotating gears. The large gear on the banjo side is a press fit and they used a pin for a key. This one you have to jury rig up some sort of fixture to put this shaft back in. I have done several and its a real bugger to do.
    In laymans terms: leavethetopshaftthehellalone

    Keep that in mind if I rebuild the gearbox on mine

    ...thanks, Dennis.

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    bradjacob's Avatar
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    I'm wondering how hard this will be to install back together. I read through the disassembling of the QCGB and it scared me

    Maybe because I don't have it fully part and know really what it's referring to. I printed out the part list and instructions. I'm going to start with the nut that holds one of the remaining shafts.

    Do I need to get those shims out (the ones on the ends that had a set screw in them)?

    Maybe once I get this apart, I can actually speak to someone?

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    Ok, at a stand-still and really frustrated now.

    I tried to make some progress with the instructions & parts list, but to no avail... In the picture below, the pin isn't coming out. It seems to be mushrooming. Is this common or am I doing something wrong, I mean should I just keep trying to whack this thing until it comes out?



    Then, I have two more problems.

    1. When the pin DOES finally come out, what methods have people used to hold the gears in place (and not ruin them), while trying to unloosen that bolt?

    2. Then, for the second shaft (the complex one) the instructions mention that the last gear #33 is pressed on. I'm guessing I need to use a large drift pin to hammer on the shaft? If so, looking at the below picture, which side do I need to hammer on? Or is hammering the wrong method?



    Help!
    Last edited by bradjacob; 12-10-2013 at 08:19 AM.

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    ibgolfr's Avatar
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    Default gear box

    brad

    Give me a call at 217 868 9409 and we can chat about the box while you are looking at it. If I recall the pin is taper and that might be your problem. I am home this evening--midwest time, give me a shout when you want and are at your bench.

    Eric

  9. #9
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    Default gear box

    Brad

    If you don't have this complete you need it for reference.

    Eric

    http://www.wswells.com/partslist/915B.pdf

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    Ok, so now I've broken three(3) pin punches by trying to punch this pin out. No luck whatsoever. Both ends looked VERY similar - for being a taper pin. Another night with no progress. I'm now out of options and had to walk away before my anger got the best of me

    So before this thing winds up in the garbage, is there anything else I can do to remove a taper pin that refuses to come out?

    The ends are totally messed up. Any circular outlines are from the various sizes of pin punches sacrificed in tonight's ordeal.

    Here's one side


    Here's the other
    Last edited by bradjacob; 12-10-2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    Tonight ended on a bad note. I read some posts on removing the taper pin and it seemed like drilling was the only option. I did, then tried to tap out what remained of the pin and the nut split in two pieces.

    Ok, I thought, the nut is replaceable and even the shaft (because the threads got chewed up as well).

    So then it was onto the other shaft - the really difficult one to remove. Well, I had previously downloaded a "how to" (on the Hobby Machinist site) on disassembling the QCGB. The person used a brass rod and hammered it out. I did the same thing. Only, the end of the shaft was getting banged up and then all progress stopped. There is (what looks like) another taper pin in the gear right after the pressed on one? The picture below shows what looks like one, and it appears to not go directly through the center of the shaft?



    Anyway, as I was banging on it, the whole enclosure slipped out of the rig that was holding it. It flew across the room, hit the concrete floor and busted. Why the hell is this so hard to do?



    I think should have listened to Dennis Turk when he said to leave those last two shafts alone. Now I need to buy a new casting, a new "difficult shaft" - and it's gears.

    Any words of encouragement? I can sure a pick me up
    Last edited by bradjacob; 12-10-2013 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #12
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    Brad,

    I went through the same ordeal on my 9" model C. First you need to ascertain without a doubt which end of the taper pin is which. I used a 1/16" pin punch (that I had already broken) and cut it back as much as possible until it was just under the diameter of the small end of the taper pin. This will make the pin punch more rigid and give you better control (by virtue of being shorter) when you whack it with the hammer. Place the gearbox on something that doesn't give when your whacking, so that all the force is transmitted to the pin.

    Paul

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    Hey Brad sorry to hear about your gearbox. I add a gearbox to my heavy 10 not to long ago and looked at several on ebay and they seem to go for a reasonable price. The single lever ones go cheap because it seems must people prefer the double tumbler. Anyways there is one on the ebay right now South Bend Single Lever Gear Box 10" - eBay (item 150508974695 end time Oct-26-10 11:03:03 PDT)

    best of luck

    Danny

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannyrocci View Post
    Hey Brad sorry to hear about your gearbox. I add a gearbox to my heavy 10 not to long ago and looked at several on ebay and they seem to go for a reasonable price. The single lever ones go cheap because it seems must people prefer the double tumbler. Anyways there is one on the ebay right now South Bend Single Lever Gear Box 10" - eBay (item 150508974695 end time Oct-26-10 11:03:03 PDT)

    best of luck

    Danny
    Oh man, that's some good news - THANKS Danny! I just bid on it. Hopefully, I'll be back in business

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    Made some great progress today. Placed a bid on an eBay gear-box (please, nobody bid on it, I need it bad ).

    I placed all the salvaged gears, nuts, bolts into a Purple Power bath for the night.

    I moved onto the base unit and got the counter-shaft assembly out and taken apart. Painted on some Citristrip on the doors and all the other parts. During the week, I'll be removing the stripper and cleaning everything up to ready it for paint. Will post some pics when done.

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    nojrs is offline Aluminum
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    Sorry to hear about your gearbox troubles and the broken case. I too am restoring a single tumbler Heavy 10 and I am just now messing with the gearbox. I also encountered the same taper pin issue and could not get it out either. I have decided to leave the two main shafts alone and just clean-up the gears with a fine file.

    However, several of the parts I did get off are badly worn and I would like to replace them if I can. So, after you get your replacement gear box and pick the best parts, perhaps we could work a deal on some of your leftover parts? You could then recoup some of the cost of the replacement. Also, I have a spare clutch assembly, so when you get to the apron keep that in mind.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by nojrs View Post
    However, several of the parts I did get off are badly worn and I would like to replace them if I can. So, after you get your replacement gear box and pick the best parts, perhaps we could work a deal on some of your leftover parts? You could then recoup some of the cost of the replacement. Also, I have a spare clutch assembly, so when you get to the apron keep that in mind.
    Absolutely! There's no need for me to hang onto duplicate parts. Send me your email in a PM and we can take it from there.

  18. #18
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    Default Just Wondering - - -

    Do you think your lathe may have been through a fire? The condition of the crud on the gears, from the way the photos looked seem to be dried on as if they had sustained tremendous heat. Mebby why the casting boke?

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    Default gear box

    Brad, if the ebay thing doesn`t work out i have a 10L parts lathe with the gearbox you need. i bought it for the cast base and leg, i considered(briefly!)rebuilding it but it is just too worn( the saddle has cut a groove in the valley between the v way and tailstock flat!) lots of good parts though.

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    Been making a lot of progress in the past week. Tons of paint stripping and parts cleaning. Here are some pix of the progress...

    Pulley ready for primer

    .
    .
    Door ready for primer

    .
    .
    Base with Citristrip doing it's amazing job

    .
    .
    Another door ready to get primed

    .
    .
    Most of the base parts after being degreased in Purple-Power

    .
    .
    The main pulley cone for the base with a little scotch-brite treatment

    .
    .
    The handle was sand blasted by my neighbor. I'll get him to do the other carriage & spindle parts.

    .
    .
    Some gearbox parts cooking in Purple Power
    Last edited by bradjacob; 12-10-2013 at 08:45 AM.

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