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Thread: Heavy 10 serpentine belt??
02-15-2007, 12:29 AM #41
Tom the bad weather works wonders for getting stuff done doesn't it. so have you been able to get her up to speed yet. I started doing changes to my 9 and found out how anemic my 1/3 h.p. motor was, then it was a 1/2 , then it was v belt pulleys... and so on, I think your on your way. [img]smile.gif[/img]
02-15-2007, 08:58 PM #42Is that allen screw all that holds the pulley in place? I'd have thought there would at least be a flat spot on the shaft to tighten the screw against.
[ 03-11-2007, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Paula ]
02-15-2007, 09:21 PM #43
FWIW folks I did cut the leather belt off the
10L, I'm now running the serpentine belt with
cyanoacrylate glue for real.
I did however get a case of cold feet, and
set up a leather belt for immediate replacement
if need be....
02-15-2007, 10:01 PM #44
Jim: Does it seem like you have a whole new lathe? Gary P. Hansen
02-15-2007, 11:47 PM #45
For heavy cuts, yes. Like I said, it's
a good deal closer to a gearhead machine on
the contiuuum from 'belt' to 'gear' drive.
Obviously not a real gearhead but for hard
working the leather would slip, no doubt
about it. As a test I put a 1.5 inch chunk
of steel in the machine and was taking a
0.1 inch cut off the diameter, on the middle
step of the pulley. The chips most definitely
were coming off blue, and smoking.
I am still quite disturbed - tonight I was
polishing up a drip oiler I've recently
disassembled, and the belt splice was a bit
less 'done' than it was before the job. I'm
worried that it may let loose again. Seems
like the cords themselves don't really want
to stick to much. I think I'm going to be
on the lookout for the plastics bonding
cement mentioned above. Either that or I'll
try contact cement.
I would say again that this splice is a good
deal shorter than recommended - it's only 1.5
02-16-2007, 12:29 AM #46
It was the cone pulley that came loose. I don't recall paying any attention to that dimple in the shaft when I was assembling the countershaft - just lined it up with the cone pulley in the headstock and tightened it up. Now that I have the set screw in the dimple, it spins right up. Next comes a "proper" glued splice. The Clipper splice works, but the clicking would drive me nuts.
02-24-2007, 01:21 PM #47
I think 1.5" is too short a joint and would try for at least 4" next time, if the current glued joint lets go.
I ran a nylon/cloth belt for over five years on my 10L and used a solvent type glue at the time to weld it up. It was some stuff sent by the belt vendor and it was in a little unlabeled bottle and I now suspect that it was a couple of ounces of tire patch glue that the seller recanted so as to hide the fact. I ground each side of the joint with a belt sander. I've just had to cut that belt off because of work on the lathe I'm doing. The glued joint still was nearly undetectable but the gripping surface was shined up and slick as a new plastic toy boat.
Next up when this work is done will be a sepentine belt ala Paula's example. I'm liking the idea posted above about using tire patch cement for the job since the belt to be used does look to be rubber more than it does plastic. It's probably some mix of the two and a glue that melts the pieces together rather than just sticking them together seems like the way to go for permanence.
(I always keep both a leather and a new blue plastic/cloth belts with hairpin clips in a drawer for emergency use and for between my silly experiments.)
McMaster-Carr has a page at the beginning of their glue section that describes the properties and uses of the products they carry. It's an interesting read.
02-24-2007, 02:24 PM #48
I think your correct about the overlap I have been trying to break my belt to try this other glue. from what I have read this stuff is really strong and the best part flexiable. I found it at home depot in the paint department for only 4.00 dollars. now the only... problem? is my current belt wont come apart. I have been able to loosen some of the glue in a two inch area about the center of my overlap. this is fully tensioned and some hard .500 cuts with a four flute mill cutting tool steel in my milling attachment and still wont come apart. I really want to try this stuff but if something works,I guess for right now Iam running with what is going great! the 8" overlap I think is the key to the whole thing, lots of surface area.here is the next glue
02-24-2007, 04:32 PM #49
Oddly the belt on the cataract bench lathe
seemed to take the weatherstripping adhesive
a lot better than the one on the 10L.
They were different belts, but by the same
manufacturer, gates. The one on the 10L was
exactly one inch wide, but the first one I
bought was 24 mm instead, a bit narrow and
the grooves in my glue-up jig are exactly an
inch - so I wanted to match that.
But the wider belt seemed to have a slightly
different type of cord in the center, almost
blue colored. The narrower one was nearly
white, and the adhesive seemed to stick better
All of my delamination problems happen at the
interface between the two layers of cords, I
was grinding the belt using the cord layer as
endpoint detection. So the joint is always
cord to cord. That may not be the best for
all the cord materials.
I'll peruse the local home despot for different
adhesives, like the one pictured above.
02-24-2007, 08:16 PM #50
I was in the hardware store today and went over to their auto part section to see about some tire patch glue. They had the familiar little kit and the tube of glue was marked 'contact cement'. I didn't buy any because I've got a pint can of contact cement at home. I had thought that the glue used in those kits was something special, but now I see that my thoughts were the product of my illusions.
Going to the hardware store can have a therapeutic value.
02-24-2007, 09:42 PM #51
That is the ultimate therapy for me. A trip
to hardware stores. Sometimes I need something,
other times I'm only taking inventory.
Some of my earliest memories were visiting
hardware stores in the town I grew up in. There
were two, Rays, and Windmill. They both
had particular aromas and stock peculiarities.
I distinctly recall being enthralled by the
rotating parts bin, many levels of a huge lazy
susan, packed with every kind of electrical
item imaginable, and them some, to a five year
old kid. That stuff was better than television.
I spent today polishing the parts for the drip
oiler I had apart, using that serpentine belt.
I had squooshed a bunch of the same kind of
superglue gell into the edge that was coming
apart, and had clamped the heck out of it.
It had sat without being stressed for a week or
so, but now it seems to be holding splendidly.
Maybe it was the magic of having a freshly
prepared leather belt standing right by....
02-24-2007, 10:44 PM #52
Jim I think your correct on having standbys, I have the leather belt and the other glues nearby and couldn't have a problem if I begged for one, but if I got rid of backups I would be there on sunday night trying to finish something up with the what the H#LL DO I DO NOW! look in full force. do me a favor and let me know if you try the epoxy in my picture. I called them and they reported the holding strength is grossly understated and pretty impervious to liquids.
02-27-2007, 03:32 PM #53
On a previous post on this thread I reported I had taken a serpentine belt from my Chevy and put on a new one. I am happy to report the used one works very well on my SB9 and no glue required. I simply cut it to length, drilled small holes in the bottom of the 5 groves and with a threaded needle with small dia stainless steel thread laced the ends together.
I wanted to try this on a no cost belt to see if it worked and it exceded my expections even tho its old, some cracks and may be somewhat hardened. Its hard to believe a fresh 10 rib vs my 6 rib would do much better, but will probably try it with glue for the $25-30 cost.
03-07-2007, 11:10 PM #54
Update on serpentine belt adhesives.
I went to the home desperate and purchased
three new different kinds of goop. I then
took the leftover bit of serpentine belt, and
cut it into six short pieces, and used the
different glues to glue them back together. In
the interests of making it quick, I simply
glued each pair 'back to back' without any
grinding or skiving. I did rough up the
shiny back of the gates belt with some medium
sandpaper though. All pieces were clamped
First was Locktite's "extreme" adhesive, which
was a single part adhesive. That came right
apart after a couple of quick flexes.
Next was a two-part epoxy (similar in packaging
to the 'waterproof' version shown above) which
was touted special for plastics. It cured
quite hard and one flex and the parts popped
The final one though was a cyanoacrylate super
glue adhesive, like the one mentioned above,
listed specially for plastics. It also came
with a felt-tipped 'activator' pen.
Whoever recommended that stuff, it worked great.
Simply no way those two back-to-back test pieces
are going to ever come apart. Terrific flex
strength and there was no evidence of the joint
coming apart at the edges.
With this in mind, I set up my skiving fixture
on the horizontal mill and did one more pair
of pieces, in an approximation of a real joint.
After overnight cure it was apparent that this
joint is much much stronger than the plain 'gell'
superglue I have on my 10L right now. No matter
how tighly I bend the joint, it does not start
to pop loose at the leading or trailing edges.
I would say this is the stuff to use, if the
existing serpentine belt comes loose. I'll
simply get a new belt, skive it, and use this
03-07-2007, 11:26 PM #55
Jim, the last glue you listed sounds like it is real similar to what is still holding my belt together. I have done so much machining on that glue and it's been holding up fantasic. keep us tuned in with your progress and pictures. you know the funny part of this is the belt was allways the first thing I had to contend with every time I used my heavy 10, now I just keep on useing it, more and more. nothing but machining and checking the gitz oilers.
03-08-2007, 09:55 AM #56
Jim Rozen, how about telling us the comercial name and where to buy the super glue you mentioned that worked so well on your serpentine belt and also the joint length.
03-08-2007, 10:21 AM #57
OK, I will take photos this evening and post
them to the dropbox. In the past I had to take
my camera card into work to download it, but
I just got a new flash card reader at home....
A first test is in order.
03-08-2007, 07:59 PM #58
jim, if you get the chance, please post the brand name for the glue you have bought. I have a couple of machines that would like re-belting, and would like to get it right the first time.
p.s. Thanks for all the great information. I am always very glad to learn something new. especially something so helpful and useful.
03-09-2007, 12:48 AM #59
If I helps anyone....
I just tapered and glued a serpentine belt for a 13L a couple weeks ago.
I have only run the machine a couple hours total so far but the joint is still fully "stuck" no indications that it will peel or let go so far.
I used regular old "superglue" whatever Devcon brand calls it no specific reason I used that brand....only because that is what the parts store happened to have.
They had thicker stuff but I prefer the regular "thin" stuff since it spreads easily and sets quickly.
It only took one of the tiny tubes with some left over.
I think most any cyanoacrylate sp? glue will work such as "super glue" or "krazy glue" etc.
Hobby supply stores always have cyanoacrylate glues in different thicknesses an quantities too. It's widely used by model builders.
Also...the joint length, I tapered the ribbed side about 4-5". The "smooth" side doesn't taper very well, I just put it on the belt sander until I had about 1-1/2" lenght of the cords just exposed.
I tried to make sure I did as little damage to the cords as possible, just enough for the glue to get into.
It worked for me....YMMV. [img]smile.gif[/img]
03-09-2007, 10:51 AM #60
OK here are some photos of the skive-and-glue
job on the one inch wide gates serpentine
belt. The glue package is in one of the photos
but they're really large pictures, about a meg
each - from my kid's new camera. Again for
scale, the belt is one inch wide.
and the glue, from home despot:
This stuff seems to be perfect for the situation.