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  1. #41
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    Tom the bad weather works wonders for getting stuff done doesn't it. so have you been able to get her up to speed yet. I started doing changes to my 9 and found out how anemic my 1/3 h.p. motor was, then it was a 1/2 , then it was v belt pulleys... and so on, I think your on your way. [img]smile.gif[/img]

    Tony

  2. #42
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    Is that allen screw all that holds the pulley in place? I'd have thought there would at least be a flat spot on the shaft to tighten the screw against.
    Tom, South Bend was notorious for setscrews jammed right in to a finished shaft -- sometimes, anyway. When you say countershaft pulley, I'm not sure if you mean the (larger) input pulley, or the cone pulley that drives the spindle. Your lathe is a lot older than mine, so it might be different, but the large pulley on my countershaft is held with a taper pin, while the cone pulley is retained with a setscrew in a spot-drilled hole in the shaft. You could probably just drill a shallow hole in the countershaft for your setscrew to lock into.

    Paula

    [ 03-11-2007, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Paula ]

  3. #43
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    FWIW folks I did cut the leather belt off the
    10L, I'm now running the serpentine belt with
    cyanoacrylate glue for real.

    I did however get a case of cold feet, and
    set up a leather belt for immediate replacement
    if need be....

    Jim

  4. #44
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    Jim: Does it seem like you have a whole new lathe? Gary P. Hansen

  5. #45
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    For heavy cuts, yes. Like I said, it's
    a good deal closer to a gearhead machine on
    the contiuuum from 'belt' to 'gear' drive.

    Obviously not a real gearhead but for hard
    working the leather would slip, no doubt
    about it. As a test I put a 1.5 inch chunk
    of steel in the machine and was taking a
    0.1 inch cut off the diameter, on the middle
    step of the pulley. The chips most definitely
    were coming off blue, and smoking.

    I am still quite disturbed - tonight I was
    polishing up a drip oiler I've recently
    disassembled, and the belt splice was a bit
    less 'done' than it was before the job. I'm
    worried that it may let loose again. Seems
    like the cords themselves don't really want
    to stick to much. I think I'm going to be
    on the lookout for the plastics bonding
    cement mentioned above. Either that or I'll
    try contact cement.

    I would say again that this splice is a good
    deal shorter than recommended - it's only 1.5
    inches long.

    Jim

  6. #46
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    Paula,

    It was the cone pulley that came loose. I don't recall paying any attention to that dimple in the shaft when I was assembling the countershaft - just lined it up with the cone pulley in the headstock and tightened it up. Now that I have the set screw in the dimple, it spins right up. Next comes a "proper" glued splice. The Clipper splice works, but the clicking would drive me nuts.

    Tom

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    Jim,

    I think 1.5" is too short a joint and would try for at least 4" next time, if the current glued joint lets go.

    I ran a nylon/cloth belt for over five years on my 10L and used a solvent type glue at the time to weld it up. It was some stuff sent by the belt vendor and it was in a little unlabeled bottle and I now suspect that it was a couple of ounces of tire patch glue that the seller recanted so as to hide the fact. I ground each side of the joint with a belt sander. I've just had to cut that belt off because of work on the lathe I'm doing. The glued joint still was nearly undetectable but the gripping surface was shined up and slick as a new plastic toy boat.

    Next up when this work is done will be a sepentine belt ala Paula's example. I'm liking the idea posted above about using tire patch cement for the job since the belt to be used does look to be rubber more than it does plastic. It's probably some mix of the two and a glue that melts the pieces together rather than just sticking them together seems like the way to go for permanence.

    (I always keep both a leather and a new blue plastic/cloth belts with hairpin clips in a drawer for emergency use and for between my silly experiments.)

    McMaster-Carr has a page at the beginning of their glue section that describes the properties and uses of the products they carry. It's an interesting read.

  8. #48
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    Hi Ken
    I think your correct about the overlap I have been trying to break my belt to try this other glue. from what I have read this stuff is really strong and the best part flexiable. I found it at home depot in the paint department for only 4.00 dollars. now the only... problem? is my current belt wont come apart. I have been able to loosen some of the glue in a two inch area about the center of my overlap. this is fully tensioned and some hard .500 cuts with a four flute mill cutting tool steel in my milling attachment and still wont come apart. I really want to try this stuff but if something works,I guess for right now Iam running with what is going great! the 8" overlap I think is the key to the whole thing, lots of surface area.here is the next glue

    Tony

  9. #49
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    Oddly the belt on the cataract bench lathe
    seemed to take the weatherstripping adhesive
    a lot better than the one on the 10L.

    They were different belts, but by the same
    manufacturer, gates. The one on the 10L was
    exactly one inch wide, but the first one I
    bought was 24 mm instead, a bit narrow and
    the grooves in my glue-up jig are exactly an
    inch - so I wanted to match that.

    But the wider belt seemed to have a slightly
    different type of cord in the center, almost
    blue colored. The narrower one was nearly
    white, and the adhesive seemed to stick better
    to that.

    All of my delamination problems happen at the
    interface between the two layers of cords, I
    was grinding the belt using the cord layer as
    endpoint detection. So the joint is always
    cord to cord. That may not be the best for
    all the cord materials.

    I'll peruse the local home despot for different
    adhesives, like the one pictured above.

    Jim

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    I was in the hardware store today and went over to their auto part section to see about some tire patch glue. They had the familiar little kit and the tube of glue was marked 'contact cement'. I didn't buy any because I've got a pint can of contact cement at home. I had thought that the glue used in those kits was something special, but now I see that my thoughts were the product of my illusions.

    Going to the hardware store can have a therapeutic value.

  11. #51
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    That is the ultimate therapy for me. A trip
    to hardware stores. Sometimes I need something,
    other times I'm only taking inventory.

    Some of my earliest memories were visiting
    hardware stores in the town I grew up in. There
    were two, Rays, and Windmill. They both
    had particular aromas and stock peculiarities.

    I distinctly recall being enthralled by the
    rotating parts bin, many levels of a huge lazy
    susan, packed with every kind of electrical
    item imaginable, and them some, to a five year
    old kid. That stuff was better than television.

    I spent today polishing the parts for the drip
    oiler I had apart, using that serpentine belt.
    I had squooshed a bunch of the same kind of
    superglue gell into the edge that was coming
    apart, and had clamped the heck out of it.

    It had sat without being stressed for a week or
    so, but now it seems to be holding splendidly.
    Maybe it was the magic of having a freshly
    prepared leather belt standing right by....

    Jim

  12. #52
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    Jim I think your correct on having standbys, I have the leather belt and the other glues nearby and couldn't have a problem if I begged for one, but if I got rid of backups I would be there on sunday night trying to finish something up with the what the H#LL DO I DO NOW! look in full force. do me a favor and let me know if you try the epoxy in my picture. I called them and they reported the holding strength is grossly understated and pretty impervious to liquids.

    regards Tony

  13. #53
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    On a previous post on this thread I reported I had taken a serpentine belt from my Chevy and put on a new one. I am happy to report the used one works very well on my SB9 and no glue required. I simply cut it to length, drilled small holes in the bottom of the 5 groves and with a threaded needle with small dia stainless steel thread laced the ends together.
    I wanted to try this on a no cost belt to see if it worked and it exceded my expections even tho its old, some cracks and may be somewhat hardened. Its hard to believe a fresh 10 rib vs my 6 rib would do much better, but will probably try it with glue for the $25-30 cost.
    Walt

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    Update on serpentine belt adhesives.

    I went to the home desperate and purchased
    three new different kinds of goop. I then
    took the leftover bit of serpentine belt, and
    cut it into six short pieces, and used the
    different glues to glue them back together. In
    the interests of making it quick, I simply
    glued each pair 'back to back' without any
    grinding or skiving. I did rough up the
    shiny back of the gates belt with some medium
    sandpaper though. All pieces were clamped
    overnight.

    First was Locktite's "extreme" adhesive, which
    was a single part adhesive. That came right
    apart after a couple of quick flexes.

    Next was a two-part epoxy (similar in packaging
    to the 'waterproof' version shown above) which
    was touted special for plastics. It cured
    quite hard and one flex and the parts popped
    apart.

    The final one though was a cyanoacrylate super
    glue adhesive, like the one mentioned above,
    listed specially for plastics. It also came
    with a felt-tipped 'activator' pen.
    Whoever recommended that stuff, it worked great.
    Simply no way those two back-to-back test pieces
    are going to ever come apart. Terrific flex
    strength and there was no evidence of the joint
    coming apart at the edges.

    With this in mind, I set up my skiving fixture
    on the horizontal mill and did one more pair
    of pieces, in an approximation of a real joint.
    After overnight cure it was apparent that this
    joint is much much stronger than the plain 'gell'
    superglue I have on my 10L right now. No matter
    how tighly I bend the joint, it does not start
    to pop loose at the leading or trailing edges.

    I would say this is the stuff to use, if the
    existing serpentine belt comes loose. I'll
    simply get a new belt, skive it, and use this
    stuff.

    Jim

  15. #55
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    Jim, the last glue you listed sounds like it is real similar to what is still holding my belt together. I have done so much machining on that glue and it's been holding up fantasic. keep us tuned in with your progress and pictures. you know the funny part of this is the belt was allways the first thing I had to contend with every time I used my heavy 10, now I just keep on useing it, more and more. nothing but machining and checking the gitz oilers.

    Tony

  16. #56
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    Jim Rozen, how about telling us the comercial name and where to buy the super glue you mentioned that worked so well on your serpentine belt and also the joint length.
    Walt

  17. #57
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    OK, I will take photos this evening and post
    them to the dropbox. In the past I had to take
    my camera card into work to download it, but
    I just got a new flash card reader at home....
    A first test is in order.

    Jim

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    jim, if you get the chance, please post the brand name for the glue you have bought. I have a couple of machines that would like re-belting, and would like to get it right the first time.

    thanks,

    jon

    p.s. Thanks for all the great information. I am always very glad to learn something new. especially something so helpful and useful.

  19. #59
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    If I helps anyone....
    I just tapered and glued a serpentine belt for a 13L a couple weeks ago.
    I have only run the machine a couple hours total so far but the joint is still fully "stuck" no indications that it will peel or let go so far.

    I used regular old "superglue" whatever Devcon brand calls it no specific reason I used that brand....only because that is what the parts store happened to have.
    They had thicker stuff but I prefer the regular "thin" stuff since it spreads easily and sets quickly.
    It only took one of the tiny tubes with some left over.
    I think most any cyanoacrylate sp? glue will work such as "super glue" or "krazy glue" etc.
    Hobby supply stores always have cyanoacrylate glues in different thicknesses an quantities too. It's widely used by model builders.

    Also...the joint length, I tapered the ribbed side about 4-5". The "smooth" side doesn't taper very well, I just put it on the belt sander until I had about 1-1/2" lenght of the cords just exposed.
    I tried to make sure I did as little damage to the cords as possible, just enough for the glue to get into.
    It worked for me....YMMV. [img]smile.gif[/img]

  20. #60
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    OK here are some photos of the skive-and-glue
    job on the one inch wide gates serpentine
    belt. The glue package is in one of the photos
    but they're really large pictures, about a meg
    each - from my kid's new camera. Again for
    scale, the belt is one inch wide.

    http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/Splice_1.jpg

    http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/Splice_2.jpg

    http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/Splice_3.jpg

    and the glue, from home despot:

    http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/Splice_4.jpg

    This stuff seems to be perfect for the situation.

    Jim


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