Hello, just got a 9" lathe

Todd Blakemore · May 26, 2007

Hello, I just picked up a 9" south bend and a craftsman model 109 0703 yesterday afternoon for a price I couldn't resist.

I used to work in a small machine shop in highschool and have a little bit of experience with lathes and mills, now keep in mind it's been quite some time since I've worked in a machine shop... so I'm sure I'll have quite a few questions.

Anyway, I'm sure you don't really care about that

here's a couple pics of the lathes (haven't even gotten a chance to get them out of my car yet.)

I plan on cleaning them up and getting back into metal work. From my brief look at it, I wasn't able to see any serial # on the way's so I'm guessing that they've been reground (I'll know more once I get it out and on the ground for clean up.

Any suggestions on what I should use to clean the grease/rust/crud from it? My plan (at the moment) is to use wd-40 and a cloth to see how bad things were, then go at the rust with steelwool if needed. Smaller Parts I can get off will be de-greased and then I'll use electrolysis to remove the rust.

I kinda like the old 'patina' so to speak that is on it at the moment so I haven't thought about re-painting.

Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?

Thanks in advance

-Todd

Paula · May 26, 2007

Hi Todd,

Welcome to the forum. That looks like a quite a trunkload! Don't know much about Atlas lathes, but the South Bend looks like it has potential. I'm not sure what year SB switched to the side-oiling spindle bearings, but I know it was prior to 1940, so your lathe would have to be older than that, with it's top-oiling bearings.

With regard to the serial number, these were generally stamped between the 1st and 2nd ways, and wouldn't be affected by a normal re-grind. If the number's not there, maybe they were located elsewhere on the earlier lathes(?)

Smaller Parts... will be de-greased and then I'll use electrolysis to remove the rust.

I kinda like the old 'patina'... so I haven't thought about re-painting.

"On the surface", these two statements seem incompatible.

Rather than steel wool, I would recommend a product called ScotchBrite. It's an abraisive-impregnated fiberglass pad that I find much more effective and user-friendly than steel wool, at least for metal cleaning.

Again, welcome to the forum, and keep us informed of your progress!

Paula

Hugh98 · May 26, 2007

Welcome to the forum! Nice find. Both should clean up well with a good dose of elbow grease!

I like odorless mineral spirits, compressed air (air compressor), Ultra Fine ScothBrite, and 0000 steel wool. Have fun and keep us posted!

Hugh

jim rozen · May 26, 2007

Wow. That's the first time I've seen a 109
lathe with a drum switch on it!

Those small machines were made by AA products,
or Dunlap. They were later sold by sears. Yours
predates sears I think. They have notoriously
weak spindles so be on the alert for that. They
make nice projects.

You can use your new SB 9" machine to work on the
project!

Did it come with the change gears?

Jim

aametalmaster · May 26, 2007

Here is some reading on the AA109 lathe. I have 2 of them and Jim is right about the weak spindle, mine was broke when i got it. But some parts are out there and the lathes bring good money on ebay if you should decide to sell it...Bob
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page4.html

swells · May 26, 2007

Paula is correct, this is a pre 1939 9 inch Workshop. The year is between 1936 and 1938,
it has the second lock for the compound spud, so it is probably post 1935. If the belt tension adjusting handle is original that means 1936 or newer. It sure looks like a keeper to me.

Steve

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

Thanks for the great info!

I realized that my idea of keeping the patina and removing rust are kind of the opposite of each other. I think for now I'll get it usable and get back into the metal working side of things.

While I haven't had a chance to look at the 109 in detail, its good to know about the weak spindle thanks for the info.

Yesterday I managed to get them out of the trunk and the SB onto a table to get a better look at it and start cleaning it up a bit.

No serial # yet.

I remembered after I posted that in the machine shop I used to work in we used scotchbrite and wd-40 (slipped my mind when I first posted) so I scrubbed on the way's a bit with a pad and some wd-40.

Did it come with the change gears?

I'm not sure what the change gears are, I found some gears with the 109 and when I say found, I mean it. The place I got this stuff from was packed to the gills with all sorts of treasure...err junk *grin* I hunted through it for about 2 hours

While I did my best to snag everything lathe related but it's quite possible that some had be thrown out before I got to it.

here are a few more shots of the stuff I snagged.
(sorry for the mess)

**continued in next post**

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

Found some #'s on the chuck

Will post more pics as I get more into the tear down. More pics are located here.

http://fuslit.org/photo_gallery/index.php?album=misc/tools/05-26-07_metal_lathe/

-Todd

jim rozen · May 27, 2007

The change gears you have shown there are indeed
for the smaller 109 lathe, they are in zamak, or
die cast zinc. Handy, but if there is any way
to go back to the original sale location and
find the set of change gears for the southbend
lathe, by all means do this. If it means making
some extra payment to get a full set, within reason,
by all means do so as they will make your life
a good deal easier.

Also attempt to find who purchased the 'other'
lathe there, and is at this time missing the
tailstock - you seem to have an spare one!

Jim

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

Ah, well from what I saw, there were no change gears. The person who owned the lathe has passed away. But I will be going back on Tues to pickup the second pile of tools that I bought. I'll make sure to look through the rest of the stuff.

-Todd

Paula · May 27, 2007

Todd,

Here is a picture of what the South Bend change gears look like (from a current eBay auction):

There should be (13) gears total -- with 16, 24, 32, 36, 40, 44, 46, 48, 52, 54, 56, 60, and 80 teeth. (The set pictured above has two 32-tooth gears, but is missing the 80-tooth.)

It's quite common that the change gears get separated from the lathe to which they belong. One could surmise that this generally happens when the lathe's owner passes on, and the individual charged with disposing of their tools has no clue that the change gears belong with the lathe.

Paula

EDIT: I just noticed from the picture of your index chart (above) that your lathe, being one of the earlier 9's, used a slightly different change gear lineup. For example, it includes a 72-tooth gear, which was not part of the later set. Also, it doesn't seem to include the 24 or 36 (and possibly 46?) tooth gears. I do know that the earlier 9" lathes required an optional "fine thread cutting attachment" to cut threads from 44 to 80 threads-per-inch. Bottom line: take everything I'm saying here with a grain of salt, as I don't have much experience with the change-gear lathes.

peterh5322 · May 27, 2007

Notice that there are some involute spline gear cutters in the miscellaneous tooling box.

BTW, I'd get rid of that "Greenfield", and install either liquid-tight flexible conduit, or "severe service" (i.e., Type SO or SJO) cordage between the drum switch and the motor and line cord.

As your motor is 2 HP or under, you can use the "cordset" as your "disconnect", but I would install a fusible safety switch, if I had one readily available.

Paula · May 27, 2007

I'd get rid of that "Greenfield"...

I've always heard it referred to as "BX". Either way, it's only a matter of time now before Jim chimes in with his SealTite Speech.

Paula

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

Just found a major portion of the south bend puzzle. I forgot that I picked up a couple books as well and this was among them.

A price list of Repair parts for South Bend Lathes,

Bulletin No. 19-A

Printed in August, 1934

The important part is "my lathe is #13835" written in pencil on it.

I want to say that this must be the lathe's Serial #, what are my chances?

-Todd

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

I agree, the conduit needs to be re-thought, I also need to figure out a good bench to put the machine on.

I'm not sure what the gear cutters were doing in the box, I didn't see them until I unpacked the box'o'random machine tooling...

Also got a book on gear cutting, that brings my collection to two gear cutting books now. The one I picked up with the lathe is "Gear Cutting Practice by Colvin and Stanley" say's its a "first edition, sixth impression printed in 1937"

-Todd

Paula · May 27, 2007

Todd,

I don't think that's the serial number for your lathe, as it indicates a 1917 date of manufacture, well before the 9" Workshop lathe came along.

Paula

jim rozen · May 27, 2007

That probably is BX cable, and not greenfield.

It's most likely three conductor as well, as there
are three of them going to the drum switch.

One of them goes to the power plug, the other
two go from the switch to the motor, providing
six conductors between switch and motor, which
is the number needed to provide reversing service.

It's a pretty jumbled setup and the BX is honestly
the wrong approach to the job.

Greenfield is larger diameter BX without any
wires put in by the manufacturer. Er, liquidtite?

Jim

Todd Blakemore · May 27, 2007

I don't think that's the serial number for your lathe, as it indicates a 1917 date of manufacture, well before the 9" Workshop lathe came along.

I was afraid of that, I checked the list of serial's and saw that it pointed to 1917ish, ahh well no worries, just thought it would be neat to try and track down the origin's of the lathe.

One of them goes to the power plug, the other
two go from the switch to the motor, providing
six conductors between switch and motor, which
is the number needed to provide reversing service.

I believe you are correct. The wiring conduit has three wires in one of the conduits, and two wires in the other that go to the motor, and the other conduit goes to a switch.

The guy I bought the lathes from wanted to plug it in to see if the motor worked and I declined as I was not sure what state the whole thing was in.

Off to clean up some more of it

-Todd

peterh5322 · May 27, 2007

Greenfield® is a trademark for a flexible armored cable.

BX may be the "generic" designation for Greenfield, just as "NM" is the "generic" designation for Romex®.

Greenfield is still required for "whips" in Chicago and several other AHJs.

flathead4 · May 27, 2007

Todd, Have you found your serial number? It should be on the right, front end of the bed as shown below.

The tailstock shown on your lathe is from a 1934 SB 405. It has the "wrench-through" hole and painted handwheel that was unique to that model.

Tom

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