High bidder on my first lathe ever... Need some input

Well, Im just getting into machining and have never actually owned a lathe. I've actually only used one once, so I have zero experience with them. Ive been hunting for a south bend lathe for a while now, studying up where I can. Almost pulled the trigger on two others but never actually went for it.

I came across this one through a school auction. I saw the ad a few weeks ago with photos and bid sight unseen. Im not sure what I was thinking, it was kind of just a stab in the dark. I put a bid of $600 in and early today I got an email saying I was the high bidder.

Here's the lathe





Under normal circumstances I would just follow through, put my money up and bring it home. But in the interim of bidding and winning we booked a family vacation out of state starting next week. So now both time and money are a factor. I have 3 days to pay and then 3 days after that to pick up.

I messaged asking for the serial, bed length and what (if any) tooling comes with it.

Its right in the price range of tricky for me at this moment, plus given I have no lathe experience I was hoping to go with a heavy 10 to start learning on, (but not sure if that really matters.)

The details of the auction said, if I pass on the auction it will go to the next high bidder. What kind of input from more experienced owners would say about this lathe at that price point? And any major details I should consider for this machine. I hate being in the position of not know what Ive just agreed to buy but.... here I am.

Thanks in advance.

Perhaps a prototype for a Webb-Whacheon Lathe? Just kidding... WTF is that spider web for????

Built in the 40's I would guess. School lathes don't usually have such a long bed. Price is right.

Davis In SC said:

WTF is that spider web for????

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Catching flies, OR, unsuspecting first time lathe buyers, of course.

I'm not sure of prices in your area, around here, for $600, it depends. Condition mostly, then what is included. Hard to tell condition from the pics, tons of threads here about how to asses a lathe's condition, do some research.
What is included in the purchase as far as tooling? I don't see a big box of goodies in any of the pics. You'll need a tool post of some kind at least to start with. I can't see what's in the tailstock, if anything, so a live center and drill chuck will come next. That old 3 jaw looks pretty beat and those jaws can not be reversed, so that will limit what you can hold pretty severely. I would get a decent 4 jaw for now, maybe a nicer 3 jaw down the road. A collet set up and set of collets(or at least some in common sizes) is great as well.
A follower rest is not often needed, but a steady rest is a must have for most types of work, you'll need one sooner or later.
Big question is if no tooling is included, would you be better served paying more for a better equipped machine, or save a few bucks on the machine and spend a bunch of time and money tracking parts down later.
The deciding factor for me would be condition. If it's in beautiful condition with very little wear, I'd call it a bargain at $600. If it was middle of the road, normal wear but still useful, I'd hold out for a similar machine with all the tooling for $1200-$1500, which is not uncommon in the NE. Again, prices may vary greatly in your area.

On edit: If you do decide to get it and are going to move it yourself, do a bunch of research here on how to do it safely. These machines are VERY top heavy and will tip over much more easily than the average first time rigger thinks!

Davis In SC said:

WTF is that spider web for????

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Yeah... I probably should have mentioned the school auction was for a High School.. Im sure that has something to do with it.

I saw that very lathe listed on Craigslist in an ad for the auction. I believe that is a CL117E, 16" swing with an 8 foot bed. It probably weighs in the 2700-2900 pound range. Basically that is much larger version of a heavy 10. The operation of the lathe is about identical between the heavy 10 to 16" lathes. If you have the room for that much lathe, go for it. I can't imagine you would be able to get that much capacity for less money. I am guessing it is from the mid to lathe 1940's. If it is in decent shape that lathe will be pretty forgiving and easy to get decent results with. Put it this way, at that price I am sure you can get your money back out of the machine if you get it home and decide to sell it.

Two things I notice from the pictures.. The under drive section looks almost like a 16/24 with the extra shaft. But on a closer look, I think someone may have modified the machine to maybe change the speed range or accommodate a different motor. Might want to look at that very closely. Also, I think the chip guard is missing from the back of the saddle. What else is missing?

Good luck, I hope you can make it come together.

Marc

If this is your first ever experience with a lathe, I think you may have set yourself up for a difficult learning process, particularly if, as you say, money could be a problem. As mentioned above, there doesn't seem to be any tooling or accessories to go with the lathe. To properly equip that lathe to do some work, you're looking at spending considerably more than the bid price of the lathe for those "necessities." Further, a 16" lathe is a serious piece of machinery and it will be much less tolerant of silly mistakes than something like a South Bend 9" lathe. Jamming a tool into the workpiece or running the carriage into the spinning chuck--both fairly common beginner mistakes--causes some noise and excitement on a 9" lathe but does little damage to you or the machine. Making a mistake like that on a 16" machine is likely to break something and possibly injure the operator.

Moving a 9" lathe is something that can be done in the trunk of your car by taking the lathe apart and carrying the various pieces by hand. That lathe is going to require professional moving help--again adding to the price you're going to end up paying.

I think you need to seriously consider backing away from this project!

The stuff you will come to know - also widely available as paper

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_1of2.pdf

http://campkahler.com/files/How_to_Run_a_Lathe_SB_2of2.pdf

Get all you can with it, in regard to chucks, tooling etc. You should be able to sell it for what youve paid if its not for U.
Without hands on its tough to evaluate its condition.

I second that: it is top heavy and easily damaged by incorrect rigging, or damaging to you.
Get it moved by a small crane truck (that has insurance)

or

bolting 4x4 posts to the base/legs crossways to give it a wider stance will make it less tippy and a flat deck tow driver (that has insurance) could deal with it.

Unless you have rigged a lot I think it might be best moved by others, in addition the school may not let you do it or maybe they have to lift it onto your truck/trailer. Probably should have known this before you bid but water under the bridge now.

Too much lathe for you? Only you know what you plan to make with it... a south bend 9 or 10 is a nice size but too small to make a cannon.

Read and follow the books with regard to safety etc. Loosen the belt more than normal so it will slip more easily if you crash the carriage into a spinning chuck. If you get wrapped in it or any lathe your gonna hurt.

Look for a night school lathe introduction course at a local college for some real instruction. I used a course as lathe rental time before I had my own, got as much instruction as I wanted and my setups and projects were always checked and advice given. Got to test drive a bunch of varying sizes so I knew what I needed.

Here in Arizona there was a similar lathe for sale . They were asking $1600 for about a year. I just looked for the ad and didnt find it.

That South Bend is on the large side. Room is a potential issue. If you have the room and ability to move it finding a better deal might not be too easy.

Of course get everything you can. Extra chucks or tooling of any sort.

Schools used South Bend lathes because they were somewhat forgiving and sturdy enough for the noob mistakes. My personal experiences with school lathes is they often show signs of mild abuse. And rarely are worn out. But they can have some unique patches or repairs.

In the event you need something or anything that lathe is documented. Parts are easy to find unlike many others out there.

If you almost bought a couple other lathes you have some experiences with lathe prices in your area. Is it a deal?

I would buy it. You can always get your money back parting it out in a worse case scenario. On the other hand it might become a family heirloom.

You done good. Congrats!

Now get it home, carefully.

I appreciate all the input. Definitely helps shine a brighter light on the situation.

Time and money aside, if the lathe comes as shown with no tooling I know it will take much more money (and time) to put together a collection for a "standard" running setup. I don't know for certain, and Im sure that many of the basic tools can be used on a broad range of sizes of machines, but I also feel a safe assumption that buying parts for a large lathe is going to cost more than for a 9 or 10. I know things can be bought over time, but if I have some amazing machine sitting in my garage Ill be sitting up all night trying to figure out how I can get my hands dirty on this thing.

Transporting, the input you all gave definitely helped drive that point home for me (no pun intended - ha) I would definitely have to hire movers to do this one for me. Im a single person, just 'getting started'. All the machines I've bought so far have been more or less home shop machines and I've been able to get to my place with no outsourcing or major additional help. Its clear this thing would require a company, and that's immediately more money that goes into this lathe. So even though this lathes allure is the size machine for the price, that margin is already rapidly closing when I consider just getting it home and running.

As for the machine itself and for first time. Yeah, its a tad daunting. Im not too afraid to take on a large challenge but sometimes those larger challenges require more money and resources. If I had a small pool of local machinists I was buddies with I wouldn't feel so alone, but when you're figuring out everything on your own money becomes your real teacher, as Im sure a lot of you guys know. With a real large machine I may feel kinda up sh*t-creek. With a 9A or heavy 10 I feel like I can get my head around that and not feel like every tool ill need Ill have to speak to a local industrial parts dealer. I know that's a bit of an overstatement, but just kinda painting a picture in my mind.

Its not lost on me that its a high school lathe. Not that I would expect kids to hit it with a pickaxe but I dont think I want to inherit the damage of a lot of learners. If there's going to be any damage caused by a learner it should be me
But given the photos and its condition without actually touching it I feel like its putting me behind the 8 ball a bit for a first lathe.

I did actually take a community college class here and that was the one time I used the lathe. Im a major hands on learner. Ive read a bit of the SB How to Run A Lathe Book ( thanks Johnoder for posting the original, looks different from my reprint but I could be wrong) And of course watch videos and read through some forums, but I need to actually put my hands on something and mess with it to get my head around it. If I had this machine I feel like it may make things more difficult for me. Like if I needed to plant some flowers in my front yard and someone dropped off a front-end loader. Again, an overstatement but you get the idea.

I feel like Im gunna keep my eyes open for a 9A or possibly a 10 if they ever show up with as much tooling as possible and bring it into my basement where it belongs. It may cost closer to $1500+ (which seems to be what Ive noticed) but I feel thats much smarter for me. $600 was good cause thats something I could pull out the bank and not have my kids starve. Every time I try to save in my "lathe fund" (no joke), I cant ever seem to get higher than a few hundred before I get idle hands and Im back on CL.

I appreciate all the advice. Hopefully I can post soon with my first official purchase and start actually getting some work done! Thanks everyone!

That lathe could be a 14 1/2" or 16" based on the shape of the motor housing (bell). I also think the lathe is older than mid-forties based on the 2 bolt bearing caps with TOP oilers. It could also be a bastardized machine that someone donated to the school. You'll be able to get your money back out of it if you decide it isn't for you, but it might be best if you passed this one up. Just my opinion. PB

packardbill said:

That lathe could be a 14 1/2" or 16" based on the shape of the motor housing (bell). I also think the lathe is older than mid-forties based on the 2 bolt bearing caps with TOP oilers. It could also be a bastardized machine that someone donated to the school. You'll be able to get your money back out of it if you decide it isn't for you, but it might be best if you passed this one up. Just my opinion. PB

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IMHO it could easily be a mid '40s machine. It has the same bearing caps as my '39 but has the single tumbler gear box which was changed to the dual tumbler in the mid to late '40s.

FWIW

-Ron

antalog said:

I also feel a safe assumption that buying parts for a large lathe is going to cost more than for a 9 or 10.

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Although this seems like a reasonable idea, it is actually exactly wrong. The smaller machines are highly sought after by home shop guys, driving the price for the machines themselves, and parts/tooling way up. Demand for larger manual lathes is way less. That's how you got this one for $600. If it was a 10L, which is really the exact same machine, just scaled down a bit, you would have paid much more.

Derek Smalls said:

Although this seems like a reasonable idea, it is actually exactly wrong. The smaller machines are highly sought after by home shop guys, driving the price for the machines themselves, and parts/tooling way up. Demand for larger manual lathes is way less. That's how you got this one for $600. If it was a 10L, which is really the exact same machine, just scaled down a bit, you would have paid much more.

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Hmm. Makes perfect sense. Never actually considered that.