How do you keep the rust on your lathe to a minimum? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    You can seal the building up as tight as you want. Unless you remove the moisture out of the air it has no effect.it doesn't help.
    The steel in the building in itself will condense water. If you can't heat the best option is to move air thru the building. At least then you are creating evaporation when it happens.
    I am always working to improve my situation. No easy chair and never will live that life. There are a lot of retired guys that put up steel buildings struggle with the problem. The pole barn type structure is also hard to add insulation after it's built. That's why I built mine with stud walls. Insulation is a future plan.

    Dealing with the present my plan is to install the attic fan hooked up to a humistat and pull air through the building.o
    Farmers build three sided shelters to protect their equipment yet the open side prevents trapping the humidity. They know from experience not to make a tight building full of humid air.

    I'm going to section off an area and heve a controlled enviirment as suggested. The future.

    The original poster is putting up a pole barn and plans to insulate and heat in the future. He is asking how to keep his machine from rusting.
    My earlier suggestion is a product called Fluid Film. It works.
    That is my suggestion for what to apply to the lathe. Apply it and let it set off a while and lightly wipe it off or spray it on and leave it on.
    I don't know where the original poster lives but if he has high humidity with quick temperature changes circulate air thr through the building to assist evaporation. If you seal it up tight it will rain inside from the metal on the ceiling.
    Suggesting heating the building is a good one. It's not within everyone's reach. We all have to work within our means.
    There are only a couple weeks a year when it's too cold to work in my building. I like it at 45 or 50 f. No sweat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Domodude17 View Post
    I am rebuilding a SB 9A, which will eventually live in my brother's pole barn. It is fully enclosed and will soon have heat, but the heat won't be on unless someone is out there working. I know the obvious answer to this question is "keep everything oiled" (which I plan to try to do), but are there any other things people do as added protection? I was thinking about keeping it covered with canvas tarps or something. Thank you
    When you build your pole barn consider building stud walls between your posts. It will be a lot easier to insulate and finish the inside walls. I would like to have my 2x6walls with foam. With the square footage I have that's 13 thousand in insulation. But nice
    Add the canvas tarp to my previous suggestion.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    That's why I built mine with stud walls. Insulation is a future plan.
    Good move, those studs! You can start - big job for that size, I'll grant - by gradually adding "fire block" crosspieces to shorten air convection track (and "chimney" effect if a fire tries to start.). Then sheet plastic. The "Refectix". Then foam or glass/rock wool AND Reflectix.

    I'm partly cut into the Earth, here. Annex is walk-out at one end, only about 3 feet into the bank at the deep end. Residence it is attached to and partly under (hence my annoying for shop work 8-foot ceilings) is a once-common three-level split.

    I got to 'safe' thermal flywheel many years ago. Zero utility power, no one to home to deal with a wintertme power outage or light and tend the Timberline woodstove, it still thermal cycles well above freezng, worst of winter. Six south facing windows, good but not yet GREAT insulation, and the ground-level and below ground level concrete slabs do that.

    More recent years, more insulation, I've reached "comfort level" thermal flywheel cycling. Temps not below 50 F, more typically 55 F and above. "Sweater weather" and long-johns, warm duvets on the beds, but no danger of freeze to death even if no power atall.

    All-electric home. I'm down $400 a month on the electric bill, worst three months of the year vs 25+ years ago, $200 of it the past year 'til now.

    I can get another $100 drop, best-case. After that it is time to revisit solar thermal and solar photovoltaic.

    It all pays-off summers as well. Pull in "night air" during the wee hours, close up during the heat of the day, and Air-con is cheap, too.

    So yeah - I've spaced out the costs over 25 years and only wish I had moved faster on it, given the cash saved and more-yet on the table for the taking.

    What I've spent on insulation endures, keeps on paying me and giving a progressively more comfortable, economical, and lower-maintenance hassle Old Age. Shops is at 57 F just now, and I don't actually WANT it much over 65 F.

    What I wasted into the power company bank account was gone, gone then, "too late, now" and ain't EVER coming back.

    "$200' is not YOUR number, but wot the hey, all this s**t "scales", and really well, given the surface area of a structure expands on one exponential factor, but the volume enclosed expands on a greater growth exponent.

    2CW

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  5. #44
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    I have a 1/3 acre pond I want to tap into for ground source heat. Seems
    I should be able to bring the shed up to above 50f without adding heating element. I would still have electrics pole entry. That would be with the coil 12' deep in the pond. That would only be with a well insulated building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    I have a 1/3 acre pond I want to tap into for ground source heat. Seems
    I should be able to bring the shed up to above 50f without adding heating element.
    You could possibly get that, mebbe more, with just translucent roofing and wall panels over a decent percentage of total, dead-average insulation. Personal, localized "greenhouse effect".

    Downside is need of reflective shades, and/or good high-level ventilation at summertime.

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    " Now.. get off yer swivel chair, go apply some of that "LAW" to thermal TRANSFER and sort out how to affordably insulate your 4 degree F shop before you freeze the wire nuts off yer RPC, willayah?"

    Way ahead of ya. Garage is insulated, sides and ceiling. So much so that when I want to work out there, I put a couple of heaters on, and it's in the 50s in short order.
    But I don't keep that going, unless I'm out there. One is a 1500 watt oil filled radiator, the other a 1500 watt milkhouse heater. Once it's up to temp I dial those back or shut
    one of them off.

    My one mistake was putting full double garage doors on it (when I moved in, no insulation, no doors even!) rather than a single door, and a man door. So this means ducking under
    the door to keep from letting the warm air out. A man door on the side is tough because the building is concrete walls up for the first three feet, frame construction after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    " Now.. get off yer swivel chair, go apply some of that "LAW" to thermal TRANSFER and sort out how to affordably insulate your 4 degree F shop before you freeze the wire nuts off yer RPC, willayah?"

    Way ahead of ya. Garage is insulated, sides and ceiling. So much so that when I want to work out there, I put a couple of heaters on, and it's in the 50s in short order.
    But I don't keep that going, unless I'm out there. One is a 1500 watt oil filled radiator, the other a 1500 watt milkhouse heater. Once it's up to temp I dial those back or shut
    one of them off.

    My one mistake was putting full double garage doors on it (when I moved in, no insulation, no doors even!) rather than a single door, and a man door. So this means ducking under
    the door to keep from letting the warm air out. A man door on the side is tough because the building is concrete walls up for the first three feet, frame construction after that.
    Sounds really, really similar to my one with the 18' door and a "man door" clear to the back, North corner. That's a roughly 40-foot walk, each way, outside and in to the rollup. OTOH, I have TWO locations with 90-minute spring-hinged firedoors to the "airlock" isolation area, then a second set same again into the LG floor of the residence. Even with the heaters shut-off, the overhead incandescent left on 24 X 7 keep it all above freezing, worst days of the year. That's roughly 1200 W consumption, includes rather decent light when I'm in there, three months, mebbe four. Spring, fall, and especially summertime, I unscrew the 100 & 150 W incandescents as they die, replace with LED's, same sockets.

    You can do the math as well as anyone on the operating cost, your own KWH rates.

    As to the door? "Tough"? Not like it once was, masonry chisels and star-drill days.

    What with the modern tools and blades the rental places - or myself or the nearly-family contractor I use have, it is mostly whether one can cut to a danged marked-out LINE or not. Half day to one day, depending..

    Having already re-shaped the Earth outside of it and provided supplementary drainage, we'll be sawing an opening in the masonry this spring to convert a LGF window into a door. That was more 'coz I wasn't happy with fire-escape routes than anything else, but nonetheless will cut that long r/t to the back corner to about 1/3 what it was.

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    I seem to try everything. The single measure that will cure 98% of the problem is the shop space insulation. If you are anal retentive, add light oiling or a tarp. Dehumidifyer (or airconditioning) when it's above 60F or so. I also add camphor blocks into my toolboxes with sensitive content, but it is an overkill in an insulated shop.

    Before I had my shop insulated, oiling/waxing + tarps + Golden Rods + camphor blocks worked reasonably well.

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    image.jpg
    I have 17 of those 24"x32" glass block windows that will go in the front and the left side. Two side by side in two positions on the front and side. Thats 8. The other 9 windows will go as if in the second floor position spaced equally out on front and side. The left corner faces south east. I should get radiant heat and light. They were framed when the walls were built. I'm going to make a jig to prebuild the frames on a bench and cut the hole out from inside. Reach through and install the frames and put the window thru and against the frame. I can do that off a scaffold from inside on a flat floor. Working off a ladder with those steep embankments is not for me.
    I have one of those factory 4' ceiling fans with the shutter louvers that close when it's off. Not installed yet. To much for one man but I'm getting there. 3300 sq feet 56x60
    Domodude try to pre plan. Southwest doors are nice. I ended up one north door and That front door faces east and will have gravel leveling it's entrance out better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    I have a 1/3 acre pond I want to tap into for ground source heat. Seems
    I should be able to bring the shed up to above 50f without adding heating element. I would still have electrics pole entry. That would be with the coil 12' deep in the pond. That would only be with a well insulated building.
    Water to air heat pump route. Big as your structure is, direct solar gain should be cheaper by far, winters. You are not seeking 70-75 F of the typical overheated residence, only decent shop temps, working hours only, and even so, the machines give off a good deal of heat anyway.

    Heat pump might do for summer cooling, just not if the pond shrinks or dries-up.

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    The pond maintains a good level. 12" drop on average. I had concerns about the water temperature in July. I swam out and the water temperature at my feet was ice cold.
    The water is a better conductor than earth but our ground here is a dense clay and that's good also There is about 200 feet to trench from the pond to the shed. I need to do whatever it takes and get it done this summer. For the house also.
    The summer cooling is really a little more important to me than the heat. Both are important. I wear insulated coveralls and am good at 20f without the wind. Summer knocks me on my ass. 98f with 90%humidity takes my breath and I'm soaking wet in 20 minutes.
    My son has done HVAC for about 12 years. His company sent me to Texas last year for a class on ground source heat pumps. He found a website that sells scratch and dent units. He is the one that told me to move as much air as I can thru the shop when things start sweating.
    I was young in the mid sevenths and was hooked on the earth home idea. There was a Earth Home magazine I subscribes to. Banks would not finance earth homes. The temperature we need is below our feet. I bought a narrow back hoe bucket to make a attachment for my skid steer to do the trench.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mllud22 View Post
    The pond maintains a good level. 12" drop on average. I had concerns about the water temperature in July. I swam out and the water temperature at my feet was ice cold.
    The water is a better conductor than earth but our ground here is a dense clay and that's good also There is about 200 feet to trench from the pond to the shed. I need to do whatever it takes and get it done this summer. For the house also.
    The summer cooling is really a little more important to me than the heat. Both are important. I wear insulated coveralls and am good at 20f without the wind. Summer knocks me on my ass. 98f with 90%humidity takes my breath and I'm soaking wet in 20 minutes.
    Heat is far worse for me. I had heat stroke long ago, so my "system" is still not fully on autopilot - I have to take the attention to consciously "manage" part of it. Cold? I don't HAVE TO make chips, so this time of year is mostly clean up, fix up, improve the facility, take a nap now and then instead.



    The temperature we need is below our feet.
    Or next to our shoulders.

    Amerindians of a very long time ago left behind rammed Earth/Adobe dwellings that modern Engineers have measured to be with an inch either way of the ideal thickness to serve as 12-month "flywheel" heat transfer and storage mass.

    They also suffered from too narrow a diet, TB, fungal, and other respiratory diseases, so...

    TANSTAAFL. Use only what works for you.

    That pond sounds good. The already paid-for glass block windows should have economic priority before NEW spend though. Otherwise the latest project is tripping-over and damaging the stored goods for the earlier ones, too long deferred. DAMHIKT.

    PS: Not just "scratch and dent". With your son's assistance, you should be able to piece-together the "right stuff" as components, selecting each on fitness for YOUR purpose, longevity, other merit, regardless of brand.

    Background in cryogenics, Corps of Engineers, rather expensive training, but good. I did that via a Florida HVAC wholesaler to put together my mostly York R-22 system and stash enough juice to keep it going until something more sane replaces the current brew of Weasel piss and flammables.

    Got the hole in the Ozone to start closing-up all right.

    Then someone pointed out the new brew had roughly 40 times the "greenhouse gas" effect of R-12 & R-22. Got to figure the manufacturers KNEW that, and already had the "next big mandatory refrigerant gas switch" factored into their longer-term biz plans.

    Vulture Capitalism.


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