I got my lathe moved into my shop

Imakechips · Aug 17, 2005

It took me a couple of hours(I was by myself), but with the help of my Honda Rancher and a Hilift jack I managed to get it off the trailer and into the shop. I will put some pics up of the lathe and how I decided to move it around when I figure out how(will search this site for info). Now I need to rewire the shop(will post pics of the ancient wiring), purchase and install a RPC(probably), and clean the machine up.

the ways

the gearbox

10" South Bend

Lathe on trailer

pic of 2x4 and casters

picture of someone's idea of gib adjustmnet

picture of the wiring and light

Well, at least I figured that out!

This topic is also posted in the general section at http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013727

[ 08-18-2005, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Imakechips ]

Imakechips · Aug 18, 2005

I took more pics today after cleaning the lathe up a bit.

To keep the dial-up guys from having too much trouble I'll post links to the pics instead of the images.

Here it is after about an hour and a half of elbow grease
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0219.jpg

What are the holes for?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0218.jpg

This is a pic of the partially stripped threads in the back of the faceplate, will be easy to fix!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0217.jpg

Here's one of the spindle nose and back of the chuck adapter
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0216.jpg

Can I assume that the adapter is factory(SB?) made?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0215.jpg

What's the extra gear for?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0209.jpg

another of the extra gear
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0210.jpg

"Leveling Screw"???
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0211.jpg

The pics of the chuck didn't turn out very well, will take some more later. The little round tag on the front of the chuck it's a Cushman and has the number 3506. Would that be the part # or what?

peterh5322 · Aug 18, 2005

A second, dummy/spacer gear is usually provided in order to accommodate the two "end gear" ratios required before the box.

Interchange the two gears in order to obtain the second required ratio.

That stud on which the two gears are mounted is intended also for compounding, when required. Compounding usually requires a second stud, which is very often an idler.

Every box is designed with an assumed "end gear" ratio.

That ratio might be 36:72 (1:2) for a Logan, or 30:45 (2:3) for a Monarch.

This will vary with the maker and with the model within the maker.

Imakechips · Aug 19, 2005

I wasn't for sure if the gear actually had a purpose(like cutting some additional threads) or if someone had fiddled with things and had some extra room which was filled with a gear that just happened to be handy. There aren't any visible markings on the gear, so I'll have to remove it and look at the other side. Perhaps that will provide some info on it's purpose? Maybe what I need to know will be in the manual I ordered from Leblond the other day. Hopefully it will be here either tomorrow or Monday.

Halcohead · Aug 19, 2005

"What are the holes for?"

Those are for mounting the follower rest, should you be inclined to purchase or make one. I'm planning on making one, i'll share the plans with you if you'd like when I get around to it. The hole ont eh back of the carriage is for bolting a coolant stand/line to, from what i understand.

The levelling screw (there should be one ont he other side) is for "twisting" the bed until the lathe passes the "two collar" test as described in HTRAL. They are for use after levelling the base, from what I understand. I haven't fully figured out how to use them, being as I haven't levelled my lathe yet.

I would reccomend getting or making a new faceplate.

The "chuck adapter" is often called a backing plate. I can't say if that was made by SB, but either way the final machining operations to fit them to the chuck were generally done by the lathe owner to fit the two together. From what I've heard backing plates aren't interchangable with other chucks.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, of course. I've only been metalworking for about 8 months and am simply sharing the knowledge I've gleaned from other sources with you since I am going through the same process as you, having recently purchased a similar lathe.

If you still haven't unseized the little spring handles for the QC box, I unseized mine by using a rag to grip it harder and then just gently twisting and pulling until it loosened up.

Larry Condon · Aug 19, 2005

I don;t believe your faceplate threads are stripped out. The shallow thread end is turned to fit the un- treaded portion of the spindle. When the treads were cut in the faceplate the point of the cutting tool was not ground properly and the tread point cut too deep. When the inside diameter was machined to fit the spindle there was not enough material to clean-up.

Larry

jim rozen · Aug 19, 2005

That's not a stripped thread on the faceplate,
that's the register diameter counterbore I think.

Your bed has 'levelling screws' which are a pair
of opposed screws (one front, one in back) that
bear on a tang on the bed casting. The bed
casting is mounted via a round pin to the
base (foot) and the screws are used to apply
force to put the bed in the most accurate
configuration for turning and boring straight.

They are used like the screws on the tailstock,
they should be tight against each other when you
are done. Use the two collar method to adjust
them after all the dust settles.

Jim

Webb Wyman · Aug 19, 2005

Hi There,

The "extra" gear on the input shaft for the gearbox is not for compound gearing. That gear is (or should be) your 40 tooth stud gear. When you want to cut very course threads, you remove the 20 tooth stud gear and replace it with the 40 tooth gear. The top row of your threading chart (on the QC gearbox) shows you the lever positions and the corresponding threads for the 40 tooth stud gear.

If you haven't already got a copy of How To Run A Lathe by South Bend Lathe, GET ONE! It is as close as you will get to an "owners manual" for your lathe. It will give you a basic introduction to lathe work and explain how your lathe works and will answer a lot of your questions.

I hope this helps. Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

Imakechips · Aug 19, 2005

Halco-I need to sleep more or something, that should have been obvious

(about the holes)

I wondered more about how the leveling screws worked than their function. Thanks for explaining that Jim! It seems odd to me that they put them on the tailstock end and not on the headstock end. I'm going to take a guess and say that would have compromised rigidity? What is the "two collar" method? I've always used a starrett 12" precision level to set machines level, something I need to buy sometime soon.

As far as the faceplate threads go, it only has about 2 threads of engagement when it is fully tightened. I will take some pics of the problem and post links. That should give you a better idea of the problem(and the reason I wouldn't use the faceplate as is).

Webb, I ordered the original manual for the machine, so I hope it has some of this stuff in it. I would think(and every other lathe I've run with a QC has been) that any feed or thread listed on the QC chart could be cut without having to change an input gear. I am familiar with lathe work and lathes in general(I am a machinist by trade), I'm just not familiar with South Bend lathes. I always preferred(and still do to some extent) the big, heavy, gearhead lathes when I was taking machining courses at the college(there was still a row of about 7 SB's before the auction after they closed the program).

KrisG · Aug 19, 2005

Webb has it exactly right about the extra gear. You can see it on the QC gear box picture you posted. For threads on the top row, you need the 40 tooth gear. This goes back to my post on the general forum that this is one of the older 10 inch lathes before South Bend went to the wide range box with 70 threads and feeds with no stud gear changes. It has been pointed out by other posters that these small lathes aren't really made for cutting coarse threads because of the forces on the lead screw and half nuts, and from what I see almost no one ever changes out the stud gear, or more of them would be missing.

My own theory on the stud gear is that when SBL came out with the double lever QC, it replaced the single lever unit which had the 48 threads. SBL didn't want to market something with less capability, so they tossed on the stud gear so they could then market the new QC gear box (which is simpler and less costly to make) as being just as capable. I also think they put the wide range gearbox on the heavy ten lathes in the early fifties because they had just come out with the 10K or light ten with the 48 feeds and threads, and giving the heavy ten additional threading capability was a great way to add value to it as the premium product. The only thing I am suprised at is that they didn't also offer the wide range gearbox on the 13 inch and bigger lathes, as South Bend was very good about trying to do the same thing an all the lathe sizes in their line.

jim rozen · Aug 19, 2005

The two-collar method for lathe setup is detailed
in the HTRAL booklet that SB published, which
is commonly available. It's perhaps the best
and only setup technique needed for this job IMO.

Jim

Imakechips · Aug 19, 2005

Here's the faceplate screwed as far onto the spindle as possible-notice that it doesn't stop on the shoulder of the spindle

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0221.jpg

Here is a pic of the # of threads left after screwing it on

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/imakechips/100_0220.jpg

When you screw in on all the way, it doesn't stop positively(like against the shoulder), it stops(if you can call it that) with a very "mushy" feeling like it is just meeting too much interference or the threads aren't machined correctly. Pending your input and getting the lathe running, I'll probably counterbore the back side of the faceplate so that it will stop against the shoulder.

BTW, I stand corrected on the gear issue! I found a link to that book on the web, when I find(again) it I'll post it here(the book is online).

William E Williams · Aug 20, 2005

You may have a chip in the threads of your face plate. HTRAL showed how to make a cleaner to remove such chips after they get mushed into the threads.

Ted

Larry Condon · Aug 20, 2005

Before you counterbore the faceplate you better do some inspection to find where the interference is taking place. Once the material is removed it's much more difficult to replace it.

Larry

Imakechips · Aug 20, 2005

I need to blue the threads with some dykem and figure out whats going on. I do know that the threads are clean(no chips or apparent damage). Since the three jaw chuck screws on and off smoothly enough to almost make you think it's been greased, I'm thinking that the threads in the faceplate are the problem, or a lack of relief.

Larry Condon · Aug 29, 2005

I have downloaded two copies of "How to Run A Lathe" looking for the "Two Collar Procedure" you guys are talking about. I have not been able to find it. Am I missing it some where?

Thanks

Larry

KrisG · Aug 29, 2005

Look on the bottom of page 16.

Halcohead · Aug 29, 2005

The two collar procedure, in various forms, is covered in tailstock aligning procedures and levelling the lathe procedures.

Imakechips · Sep 2, 2005

I won an auction on a handlever type collet attachment on ebay a week or so ago, and it came in yesterday, complete(I think) with a 3/32 collet.

I'm wondering what all I should have. Inluded were the handlever, drawtube, and the spindle adapter that the collet goes into. Should there be a threaded collar that threads onto the spindle nose and holds the adapter in place? Is the taper sufficient to hold it in place? I'm thinking I should either make or buy a thread protector ring for the spindle nose if one isn't used to hold the adapter in place. I'll post some pics later today so you folks can tell me if I'm missing anything or not.

Thanks for any info,
Joe

Larry Condon · Sep 2, 2005

Yes
The threaded collar is used to remove the spindle adapter from the spindle.

I got my lathe moved into my shop

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