Looking to buy a heavy 10

Hey guys, new to this board and semi new to the machining world. I've been looking to get a southbend heavy 10 lathe for a while, I feel it's the perfect size for a home shop and I've got some questions. I know some of this stuff has been covered before but I haven't been able to find all the answers I want, plus I figured it was a good time to introduce myself.

I've been eyeing a heavy 10 tool room lathe that sits on the 3 drawer cabinet with tubular frame with catalog no. CL8 187 ZB. It's a 3-1/2' bed which would be perfect for me and it's a d1-4 cam lock spindle. Comes with a decent amount of tooling although it doesn't have a taper attachment or telescoping steady and follow rest. I know these can be purchased but would've like it to be part of the lathe. The collets, collet rack and drill Chuck all included. All of the tags are still attached to the frame and they're not all beat up (usually a good sign that the lathe wasn't used and abused), according to the seller there's average backlash and the ways are above average. Certainly needs to be repainted, see the pictures.

For the questions:
1. Is the 3 drawer cabinet with tubular frame as rigid as the heavy cast iron pedestal style frame?
2. Is it possible for the catalog number be for a threaded spindle nose but have come with a d1-4 cam lock or is something that a previous owner swapped?
3. The lathe is being sold locally east of NYC on Long Island. I haven't had a chance to inspect the lathe yet but from the pictures it doesn't look abused. however, judging by the tooling shown in the photos, what would be a fair price for a machine like this? I fully understand this isn't a very liked question as a lot of the value has to do with slop/backlash, amount of tooling, condition of bed ways, motor size, whether it was maintained properly and lubricated etc. I have a price in mind but would like to get an opinion of some of you pros out there.
4. I haven't emailed yet regarding the brand of the chucks but the seller says that cam lock is factory so could the chucks be factory as well?

I hope the seller isn't on this forum

Any info would be greatly appreciated, thank you everyone.

Not bad but this is probably better-

HEAVY 1" X 36" SOUTH BEND TOOLROOM LATHE WITH LOADS OF TOOLING

So what does the seller want for the original lathe?

Looks like a nice machine from 20 feet away.

The loopy pile leg frames are fine, probably more rigid than the cast iron base type with the
legs at the right hand end.

Get a better photo, of the serial number and of the bed. It may be a flame hard bed - the tag may have been
removed by the tailstock, or it may be an add-on extra reflected in the serial number, if the machine was too
early to have that tag. The cam lock spindles however were fairly much later that the flame hard tag I think.

Large dials a plus. The lack of a taper attachment, a plus also in my book. Go figure.

At $500 this machine would sell in an hour. At $5000 it would never sell at all. So the ideal price for the seller
is somewhere between those two. If it is near to you then that is a real plus, you can inspect and pick up.
Your job is to get it as close to the 500 number, his job is to sell for as close to the 5000 number.

Let the games begin. Bring cash, and a pickup.

iwananew10K said:

Not bad but this is probably better-

HEAVY 1" X 36" SOUTH BEND TOOLROOM LATHE WITH LOADS OF TOOLING

Click to expand...

Oh I agree 100% the only problem is that it's about 150 miles away from me and it's an auction. I would prefer to inspect the lathe before I shelled out the money for it and I can't make it there before the auction ends.

jonok said:

So what does the seller want for the original lathe?

Click to expand...

I was leaving that out so it didn't influence the estimate but I'm sure anyone can find the listing so I'll just say it. He is asking $2500obo.

Jim, thank you for the info. The pics aren't great I know, it's all I have. It looks like I just need to get over there and inspect it and look at the serial number. The lack of hardened bed tag leads me to believe the cam lock is an addition (which is fine by me). Just out of curiosity, why do you feel that a lack of taper attachment is a plus? In the email the seller said that the serial number is an RKC number (not sure of the whole number) which I have never heard of.

iwananew10K said:

Not bad but this is probably better-

HEAVY 1" X 36" SOUTH BEND TOOLROOM LATHE WITH LOADS OF TOOLING

Click to expand...

He'll have to fight me for this one.

The one in the OP apears to have a cam-lock spindle (Ted, is that a spindle swap or original to that year?) and several chucks, steady, large dials, collet bar, etc. It's worth more in pieces than it is together. I'd say $2,300-2,500 down here in VA. Up there? Less than what he's asking because that lathe has been for sale for a good while.

Cam lock is a BIG plus especially for a vfd conversion because you can brake it without concern of the chuck flying off, not to mention spindle workholding tooling. Couldn't that be the "z" (special) in the s/n?

All about bed wear to me (no hardened bed on that one) when it comes to value.
Parts value to 3-4k if pristine.

Guys, I didn't realize the post had to be verified by a moderator so there may be duplicates at some point.

tobnpr said:

Cam lock is a BIG plus especially for a vfd conversion because you can brake it without concern of the chuck flying off, not to mention spindle workholding tooling. Couldn't that be the "z" (special) in the s/n?

All about bed wear to me (no hardened bed on that one) when it comes to value.
Parts value to 3-4k if pristine.

Click to expand...

I definitely prefer to have the cam lock for the exact reasons you stated.

As for the hardened bed I'm not too sure, once I go look at the lathe I can tell whether there are scraping marks still up by the head stock. I did read somewhere that the earlier flame hardened ways didn't carry the tag that's on the tail stock end. Again, this will be figured out once I go look at it.

Hsracer, no worries I won't be bidding against you haha. This lathe has been posted for a while, you're right about that. Can you tell by those pics if the chucks are a good brand?

I just did a little more research before I actually go and look at it. It turns out that RKC IS a proper numbering sequence for a cam lock but the CL catalog number isn't. Why would there be a discrepancy like this? Regardless, I need to make time to get there and inspect/talk numbers.

Ted has advised that the catalog will begin with CL regardless of spindle type....he would know so I'll take that over what the new "South Bend" site says( Ted worked there)

Frankly, if the machine works well it doesn't matter...parts get replaced on older machines, if someone upgraded it to cam loc then wonderful...and chucks are consumables.

It ain't a bad deal on the surface but a bit suspicious it has not sold yet...it's easily a 2K machine if it runs well.

also possible the gearbox has been swapped instead of the spindle. Doesn't much matter, hard bed and a camlock is a nice setup. If the machine is right, the number on the tag doesn't matter all that much.

Hi,

For what it's worth I corresponded with the seller and he sent me some close-up
pictures of the ways. The ways had scraping / flaking, implying they weren't
hardened.

The ways have sufficient wear that the separation between where the carriage ran
and wore away the scraping and the area where it is still present is very clear.
That being said, the owner says there's no lip at that point.

The overall package is tempting if only to strip off the colored paint!

-Phil

Someone must have had a sale on ugly baby blue paint. Mine was that color when I got it. The cabinet still is, but the chip tray is grey like the rest of it. I never got around to refinishing the cabinet.

Brandenberger said:

Hi,

For what it's worth I corresponded with the seller and he sent me some close-up
pictures of the ways. The ways had scraping / flaking, implying they weren't
hardened.

The ways have sufficient wear that the separation between where the carriage ran
and wore away the scraping and the area where it is still present is very clear.
That being said, the owner says there's no lip at that point.

The overall package is tempting if only to strip off the colored paint!

-Phil

Click to expand...

I figured there would be something like that. I will message him sometime this week and maybe get over there.

Bed wear is one of those things that kinda makes me nervous. I would prefer the hard bed for the obvious reason I'm pretty sure every lathe I've ever worked on has had wear and have never had a problem, it all depends on how bad it actually is.

And yes, that color is horrendous, it would be first order of business.