Mr. Muscle - Info Needed
So, I've had it with using Citrustrip on every little part. The scrubbing, etc, ehh....
I've read a lot of info on Mr. muscle. I broke downand bought 3 cans to try it out.
What I want to know, is everyone's method. Do you use it on your driveway? Do you spray it off with water or a pressure washer?
Please let me know your method from start to finish. I'd really appreciate it
I just spray it on and let it sit for a half hour or so and then spray it off with a garden hose. I have never really thought about breaking out the power washer but most of the time I wouldn't need it. But it might be helpful and some of the tough paint that doesn't want to come off but I just spray it with oven cleaner again if the first round doesn't take care of it.
It's ok to hose off in the driveway? Does the paint get melted I to liquid or are there rubberized paint clumps to deal with?
Originally Posted by dannyrocci
How many cans were needed?
The active ingredient in the Mr. Muscle is lye.
It will dissolve the binders in the paint (eventually) leaving a goopy mass of lye and paint blobs.
I used it to strip a complete apron, and it took about 2/3 of a can.
I let it sit over night and then just put the apron in my laundry tub and washed it off (while the wife was at work : )
Everything went down the drain.
You could use it on the driveway but it will make a mess.
However, it is really expensive! I found a cheaper spray that used KOH instea of NaOH, but even so it cost a lot.
The best results I had were with a concentrated solution of NaOH.
About a full jar of red devil lye in 5 gallons of water.
That was cheap and VERY effective.
I am still using the same solution about 3 months (and many greasy stripped parts) later.
Just don't make it too diluted or it will take forever.
I've used MM for several years, and it has worked well for me.
I prefer to get the spray bottles like this:
They're harder to find, but cheaper per ounce. MSC carries them, although their price is a bit on the high side. I did some searching on the web awhile back, and found a place that would sell me 6 spray bottles for around $10 apiece.
As you know, you should wear suitable googles and gloves when working with MM or any lye-based product, and a face shield is not a bad idea.
When I can, I like to work outside in the driveway. For smaller parts, I set-up a table with a couple of plastic containers.
I put the parts in the first container, and spray them liberally with MM, turning (with gloves) so that all surfaces are covered. I've found that it's a good idea to have a cover for the MM container in order to slow the evaporation rate.
Depending on my schedule and the condition of the parts, I'll check on progress every hour or so, turning and basting as required.
Sometimes the parts are ready in 30 minutes, other times an hour or two, and still other times overnight. Occasionally, parts may require more than one treatment. Light scrubbing with a brass or stainless scrub brush sometimes helps to speed things along. If the MM dries out, simply recoat.
The combined paint, grease, and MM typically turn into a goopy gray sludge about the consistency of yogurt or mayonnaise.
After the parts are deemed ready, I shake off as much of the sludge as I can, and then move them from the first container into the second one, which I have filled with hot water and dish detergent, like Joy or Dawn. More light work with the scrub brushes removes the remaining goop from the parts, after which I dunk them in a pail of clean water or hose them off. Generally, I'll use a pail of hot water, since I think this works better to remove the detergent than the cold water from the hose. Also, the parts seem to dry faster when hot water is used, but YMMV.
Since all oils and coatings have been removed, the parts will start rusting immediately unless steps are taken to prevent it. Again depending on the parts, I will sometimes give them an immediate spray/dunk using a phosphoric acid solution while they're in this relatively pristine state.
As far as disposal of the by-products goes, I heavily dilute the used detergent water and dump it on the driveway. As for the MM goop, I wipe out the container with paper towels and (per the local hazardous waste authorities) put them in the trash. The volume of stuff is generally quite small. The container then gets washed out with soap and water.
I do larger parts, like the cast iron pedestal base, in sections. Before hosing or pressure washing (often very helpful), I remove the bulk of the goop with a plastic putty knife and paper towels so it can be disposed of safely.
Hope this helps.
Have never tried Mr. Muscle, but sounds like Citristrip, which produces a lot of goop.
Still, so far I like Hot TSP the best. Pasts come off super clean, and dry themselves. Don't even have to deal with flash rusting.
Simple Green and Krud Kutter work well too, but some more modern paints don't come off easy. When I was cleaning a 1928 Junior lathe, the paint came off as easy as grease. As an added bonus, Simple Green will also remove surface rust if you soak the part overnight, followed by very light scrubbing with a toothbrush or a sponge.
Brad, you mentioned you tried Hot TSP before. Are you still using it, or did you give up on it for some reason?
I did, but that was with my 9". I'm doing a 13" and even the tailstock wheel is big, LOL.
Originally Posted by iron_junkie
I use the MM quite a bit. I collect plastic 5 gallon paint or joint compound cans an use them for parts that will fit. Just load parts in and spray them down and put the lid back on. The cans are left outside in the shade while the MM does its work. Some coatings are fine in a few hours but some I have left overnight. To clean them i head over to the local stall car wash to pressure wash the tough and or larger parts. I have a few clean buckets and just move the parts to them and then clean the used buckets there.
Parts that are too large for the buckets I coat with MM and them wrap them in plastic trash bags and let them sit as needed.
Thanks Pup. This is all good info and I'm looking forward to seeing what "the Muscle" can do.
Originally Posted by Lost Pup
Is Mr. Muscle safe on brass or bronze? Gearboxes have bronze sleeves and I don't want to mess up them up. I know Mr. Muscle (and any other LYE product) is a no-no for Aluminum. I learned the hard way with my 9a end-gear cover and countershaft pulley. The lye ate it for lunch...
Depending upon the alloy involved, lye may damage brass or bronze, but it won't dissolve it like it does Al.
The sodium hydroxide can strip the zinc or tin out of the very surface layer leaving the copper behind.
This may leave a dark stain on the surface, or even a visible layer of copper.
I don't think it will be good for the bearing properties of the bushings either.
I had to replace the bushings in my gearbox so I pressed them out after stripping it in lye.
Thanks Josh - I'll use Citrustrip on the box ;-)
Originally Posted by jkopel
I use Mr. Muscle at work to clean refrigeration condenser coils and also stripped my whole lathe with it. I'm impatient so i got some heavy rubber gloves, sprayed the mr muscle on and scrubbed with a toothbrush. It got almost all the paint off. THe stubborn spots i used a small brass slag brush. I rinsed in a basin of water with a sponge and towel dried off the parts. Changed the water once it started to get murky. Worked like a charm and no goopy mess and no waiting overnight.
PS I did use it on the aluminum countershaft pully with no problems but as i said i rinsed after i scrubbed it. The mr muscle was probably on there for no more than 5 min.
Nice, this sounds easy. Thanks.
Originally Posted by Halligan
I have stripped the tail stock, apron, saddle, compound of a 13" with the TSP dip.
Originally Posted by bradjacob
Use the dip where ever you can.
You will spend a small fortune on MM otherwise.
Yo Dave - do where's some updated pictures of the 13"??
Originally Posted by kozzmo99
I have gotten soooo sidetracked......nothing really to update. I need a kickstart........
Originally Posted by bradjacob
Check out my thread, maybe it will get you re-focused?
Originally Posted by kozzmo99
I tell ya Dave, I was going so nicely with my Bridgeport, until this 13" came along. Getting into a 13", is why I initially sold my Heavy-10. But at the time, I couldn't find a nice 13 (and having the really nice 9a), I just used the money to buy a DRO, VFD, shop-crane, trailer-hitch, tooling, etc - for the Bridgeport. So when saw this 13", I figured I'd put my newly-restored 9" up for sale. The buyer (who's a good friend of mine) got a fair price and an excellent machine, both cosmetic and mechanical - and I'm very grateful to him ;-)
So anyway, I've been FLYING through this restoration. I got REALLY lucky with this one. It's in superb condition mechanically, so all that's in order is a re-paint, re-wick, buff & polish. After doing two(2) lathes (to the degree I've done), this one - I can do with my eyes closed, LOL. In parallel - I've been making progress on the Bridgeport. I have plenty to go with that still, but she's coming along nicely.
Just jump back back my friend! Make a list of items to complete and just knock one off at a time. Capitalize on the warm weather and just get it done ;-)
Defining a safe procedure for removing lead-based paint during a machine restoration
I am concerned that there has been no mention of the fact that the gooey sludge contains lead! Hosing it off of your driveway will just move it to the side where it will enter the ecosystem or dry into a powder, become air-borne and be inhaled by anyone who is ever in the area.
Originally Posted by bradjacob
No level of lead exposure is safe. From USA Today ...
"... consequences of lead exposure include: nervous system and kidney damage; poor muscle coordination; learning disabilities; attention deficit disorder; and speech, language and behavior problems."
Removing lead-based paint is not just another activity on our machine restoration to-do list. That sludge is a hazardous material and it presents dangers that few of us have realized and have handled properly.
Here are some steps that might minimize toxic contamination.
1. Materials: Waterproof gloves, 2 buckets of water and some rags and a tarp that you will never use again.
2. Lay the tarp out on the driveway and put the pieces to be treated on the tarp.
3. Apply the paint remover (Mr. Muscle). Wait.
4. Wearing the gloves, wipe the sludge off using the wet rags, rinsing the rags in the bucket repeatedly. Use the 2 buckets separately for an initial wipe-down and a final wipedown.
5. Put the rags and the tarp into a plastic bag and mark the bag with "contains lead".
6. Move the buckets into a secure,protected outdoor area, like a garage or shed. Cover the buckets loosely (some pieces of wood). Mark the buckets with "contains lead".
7. Now hose down the *very* clean parts.
8. Wipe/hose your boots off if they have become contaminated, especially if you need to leave the work area.
Leave the buckets for a year or more so that most of the water evaporates. Pour the contents of the buckets into some smaller containers that can be sealed (e.g. paint thinner cans). Mark the cans with "contains lead".
Many states offer opportunities to drop off toxic materials. There may be a fee.
I cannot think of a topic on this forum where knowledge is more critical or more harm can come from a seemingly innocuous activity. Your comments and suggestions for defining a safe procedure are welcomed.
P.S. This is not legal advice. State or local ordinances may restrict you from creating, handling, transporting or disposing hazardous material. Proceed at your own risk.