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Need advice: Junk my South Bend Fourteen (electro speed control) or try to fix it ?

geardoc

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 8, 2012
Location
So Far West In NC I might just be in TN or GA
Long story short:

I have a friend, now former friend at a local government installation, who desperately needed to borrow a lathe as their EOY budget would not allow purchase or lease through the Griz-company-who-will-not-be-named-on-this-forum.

He asked to lease my South Bend Fourteen through end of January.

I said ok, he'd done me a solid before by doing his job which this dept doesn't often do.

Long story short- it was ok last week. They hired a new kid, new kid was told- do not touch lathe.

New kid had taken and failed Machining 101 at the local CC, but oh he was a beeping pro if you asked him.

While the rest of the guys left new kid to service the hydraulic oil on an excavator, he decided he'd mess around on my lathe.

Well, he managed to (1) change the quick change gears with the machine running and under power(I know because I'm pickup up teeth) (2)he snapped the drive belt (3) he damaged the half nuts trying to engage threading and feeding.


He decided he'd try to save his behind so he got a sling, and tried loading it onto a trailer to return it to me with an excavator.

He was in a panic so he dropped it, the tailstock got broken and the rear gear box cover came un-riveted.

I knew something was wrong when it wasn't returned on the 30th, per contract.

The lathe didn't come with a tailstock. I was given one by AMT in Dayton cheap, and it was for a newer 16" lathe. I made it work by using a metal planer and reducing the size to 14" and I made an adapter where the v-ways fit perfect, I mean perfect alignment. I had probably 100 hours in that tailstock.


I already lost one lathe to theft- I was paying to have it stored while concrete was poured and the storage facility owner took and gathered up everything metal on a rollback, and took it to be crushed.

I don't yet have my Pacemaker off the truck and placed, the Super Bee has to come out of the garage it is in first.

So I am left with a 10" lathe, a 14" Chinese lathe I saved from the scrap pile- and that's it for running lathes.

I loved the electronic speed control on my Fourteen. I just don't know how much more damage the kid did dropping it, and this happened at the worst possible time because I need that lathe to run- the 14" ching chong was just a POS for the purpose of roughing and polishing and it is not a precision work piece.

If I disassemble the change gear box and send the broken gears off, can some company hob replacement copies of them for me ? South Bend(Grizzly) wants an arm and a leg for any part for these and most times just ignored my parts inquiries in the past. I figure I'm better off finding a gear maker and getting some gears made. I'm so scared to open the quick change. I figure every damn one is broken.

I'm going to get nothing from the leasor, I know that now. I also know from small claims with the concrete contractor- I really don't want to sue, and when it is state or local government you have to first go to court to prove you have standing to sue.

I loved this lathe. I put my heart and soul in it and fixing it when I got it from a community college in Greenville.
 
I already lost one lathe to theft- I was paying to have it stored while concrete was poured and the storage facility owner took and gathered up everything metal on a rollback, and took it to be crushed.

I hope you beat him to death with a tire iron, and if not, I hope you publish his name here so that anyone in your area knows they should shoot to kill if he comes near their stuff.
 
Despite some of your rude comments to me in the past, I'll offer some advice with no harm intended.

If you had the Pacemaker running, it would most likely handle most of the work that the South Bend would. Honestly, that is a f#@$'d up story, and I hope they will at least try to help fix the damage they've done when you were kind enough to lend your machine out. Who's ever fault it was, it was at their shop and someone they had working for them did it.

Not sure how much work is required for your Pacemaker, but you may have some wiring and/or other electrical to do on it.

I'm sure you have thought through much of this, but I'm just pointing out that it could make sense to invest your time and money in getting the Pacemaker up and running. While not a lot of 14-1/2 lathes around (not like 9s or 10s), there are some and maybe you can post in the tooling and this forum to see if anyone might have the parts you need. Sounds like Ted at least has some parts for it, but it certainly doesn't hurt to see if any of the members might have some parts laying around...that's not uncommon. Some may even want to get them out of their shop as they were left around from old machines.

If you get the 14-1/2 back and there's not much damage other than the tailstock, by all means get it back running...Ultimately having both would be nice if you will have the space. Either way, if the Pacemaker was running you probably would have more time to work on the South Bend.

Sorry to hear your bad luck, life has a way of dumping on all of us. :crazy:
 
yes I think that is the 14 inch the poster is asking about. tried to buy one a few years back, but it was beat up by school kids in shop class
it was the only one I have seen for sale that could be picked up locally.
 
They ( local government installation) might not have had the money to buy a lathe, but they should have money to make it right (different budget areas). They owe you and they need to rid themselves of the terror that will kill somebody if left around loose. Maybe a call to the local paper if they drag their feet.

Hold them to the fire!

John
 
I would not give up on the southbend but it might be quicker to get the American up and running first. If you need a hand I'm not to far away. I've gotten pretty good at moving my own equipment around.....Hodge
 
Take your lease to the shop where this happened with an appointment to see the FULL MANAGEMENT CHAIN.

This is stupid simple stuff where there should be insurance in place to cover stupid stuff.

Management allowed "untrained operators" to operate your equipment which could be huge OSHA headache for them.

Unless your lesse releives them from liability they need to make you whole.

That is sending the machine to someplace for repairs.

If cost of repairs more than value then they buy it.

Fact that it is local government operation is to your benefit as they usually have red tape to process to get things like this approved.

So you should be able to mske very little noise to get the shop golks to jump through many hoops to avoid the need for you to go to OSHA or higher up in the government chain where the fallout could be loss of employment for one or more.
 
Take your lease to the shop where this happened with an appointment to see the FULL MANAGEMENT CHAIN.

This is stupid simple stuff where there should be insurance in place to cover stupid stuff.

Management allowed "untrained operators" to operate your equipment which could be huge OSHA headache for them.

Unless your lesse releives them from liability they need to make you whole.

That is sending the machine to someplace for repairs.

If cost of repairs more than value then they buy it.

Fact that it is local government operation is to your benefit as they usually have red tape to process to get things like this approved.

So you should be able to mske very little noise to get the shop golks to jump through many hoops to avoid the need for you to go to OSHA or higher up in the government chain where the fallout could be loss of employment for one or more.

I'm with you on this, hold thier feet to the fire and you should be able to receive compensation for what they did, the bozo who who did the damage needs to be fired and have idiot tattooed on his forehead so everyone knows not to let him touch thier stuff, the fact that he tried to cover his mistakes up makes it even worse. I make it clear to everyone in my house that touching my lathes is a good way to loose a few fingers or a hand if you know what I mean, and it's not been touched.
 
Let me relate a story from the Chocolate Mountains in southern Cal. This area is also known as the Chocolate Mountain Areal gunnery and bombing range. In the outer areas of it it is a checkerboard of military and BLM sections. A lot of the outer BLM sections are used by the public on weekends and holidays.
On a thanksgiving weekend a group of people were out on one of the BLM sections. They had gone to bed for the night, when they got bombed by Navy jets from Miramar NAS. Luck was with then in several factors, Bombs were dummy, and the trailer had twin beds. The jet laid a stick of 3 bombs down the center line of the trailer. Other than having to change clothes, everyone came out fine except for the trailer, which was a 24' foot air stream that was 2 weeks old.
The Navy said that it was a used trailer and only offered $2000.00 for an $8000.00 trailer. The owner ended up in Federal court over it to get the claim raised, He finally got raised up to $5000.00, after 2 yrs in court.
The military has a reimbursement formula that they use when figuring damages. Have an outside facility look at, and estimate the repairs, so that you have a separate form of validation.
 
Shop had one of those. Very nice to use with 5C colets. Repaired the Reeves drive. Operators would flip from forward to reverse. The collet in the drive cracked at the key way. Made a new one and had the O.D. chromed rather than hardened. Did the grinding pre & post chrome on a fixture using an O.D. grinder. Made new keys out of Delrin. Might still have the parts/operating manual around here somewhere.
John
 
I just quit for the day. Got up at 4am, and I guarantee this is mostly babbling or saying too much. But this is the update.

I had the lease written up by an attorney who does contract and patent law for my bro-in-law's company. I do gunsmithing for this attorney, and he covered my ass in the contract. However, I am likely screwed. They needed the lathe to make fittings to hook up hydraulic equipment that was pre-existing to a new large excavator and new mini excavator. They were making threaded to quick change attachements using my taper attachment and their machinist who has been there 33 years. He has threatened to quit unless they make it right. He's also refused to take Jacob(the little %%$#@@$ who screwed up my lathe) as an apprentice. He and I had never been close or anything but he could not have made the adapters without my lathe, and not made several other parts they needed for their off-brand equipment to be repaired for March inspection. We're both grumpy pricks, so apparently I've developed a bond with him without knowing it. They use the money they get to buy crap like a mini-excavator made in China, copying a small Komatsu, but very poorly copying, and there are no id tags, no manuals, no parts breakdowns available. The final drive works on the mini-e when it wants to, the hydraulics on the boom work when they want when moving right of way and creek banks. The final drive had quit working and they needed a lathe with 14" swing to surface a part from the final, and they made some pieces that had broken. The parts I saw broken had zero heat treat, it didn't even look like CRS or HRS, it looked like poorly machined pitted cast iron that the Chinese threw in there.

The Reeves drive on this Fourteen- I had spent so much money on fixing and then I got it running with a VFD and before that a static phase converter. I had taken that off when I got a 3 phase 10kw genset.

Right now I need the belts inside for the Reeves drive to run a test, and then I'm going to get someone from a machine repair company in Ohio who will be vacationing down in FL but coming near me on the way down(the closest interstate is 1 hr away).

If I can find the belts needed to start the machine, I got out the static phase converter and we can start it easily and he can give me an accurate quote.
There are several change gears broken. The Reeves drive belt is broken. Nothing inside the headstock box looks broken. I do the apron tomorrow.

I had to waste a bunch of time because I needed a 14" lathe to do some repairs to a Sharps and an old Remington action for a military guns shoot. So I took apart the Grizz and I shimmed and I refitted new keys to keyways, I checked gear clearance, and I put on a different, balanced, 3hp TEFC Lincoln 1ph motor, changed capacitors, and got it running.

The ex-friend who leased it mis-allocated funds to lease it, they have so much in their budget to lease a piece of equipment from an equipment rental- but (1) I don't count as a rental, and (2)that budget is meant to rent stuff like trenchers, cabler layers, dozers, skid-steers, etc- not a lathe. The contract said they accepted as is, to be returned in the condition received, responsible for any damage or failure, be it from mis-use, use, or some pre-existing unknown condition and there is an inspection sheet that verifies every thing works- because I demo'd it for them and their machinist- and it is signed off by two people at the shed, and it and the contract were notarized at the state credit union where I went to cash the check.

This week I had a bunch of time wasted because the local crane company has missed 3 appointments to unload the Pacemaker and put it in the garage where the Super Bee is/was. I've moved that damn Super Bee so many times now, I'm ready to firesale it, and a couple Harleys. Fuck toys, I love my toys, but I need these tools to make money, and I don't make near as much money tuning up old tractors, repairing 40+ year old crawlers out in the muck and mire, as I do with my machine tools. I thank god for the work I'm getting, Winter is always really terrible, so I complain not about the work, I just wish my tool hadn't gotten screwed up. I just paid the bills and I am tapped out unless they cough up the money to repair it, or I can sell some personal assets, or the 5 assholes who owe me money for production work manage to pay up.

I also didn't get my 5c collet closer back when I got the lathe back. I'm glad John mentioned it, I'm heading to the shed Monday AM and I'm going to look for it and probably get arrested for trespassing.

Thank you all and take care and thank you for listening.
 








 
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