Need input - South Bend 16” (6ft)

Need input before I buy- South Bend 16” (6ft)

So, I am looking at buying a 16” SB with the 6ft bed. I have never used a lathe of that size and could be considered “new” to machining. I spent almost 10 years using a 9” Logan for basic jobs (turning shafts, commutators, etc.) but I have never used a larger lathe.

I will mostly be using the lathe for smaller work 6” DIA x 16” long, but if I had the larger capacity I would likely pick up different types of work. I restore classic car parts and would likely be using the lathe several times a week.

And to get to the point, I would like some input from members that know more than I do about running these lathes. Anything would help but I am mainly questioning the precision on smaller diameter work, costs of running one of these machines, and value for shop space. The machine shop I will be moving this into is only about 300sq ft.

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The lathe in question was used by a machinist for many years but he no longer uses it. The lathe is wired and will run, but it has only been used a few times in more than two years. I have not seen the lathe in person, but will be looking at it soon.
The reason I am considering this lathe is so that I will have the option to do larger work, either for customers or for other business mis-adventures, and most importantly the price. The seller wants the space instead of the lathe, he has it listed just south of a grand but sounds like he’d be willing to take less if I come get it.
Here’s the only photo I currently have of it:
https://imgur.com/gallery/AvJhJ

Please give any input you can, and thank you in advance.

Condition and wear the most important factors. Think like classic cars. A '57 Chevy in mint condition is going to be valued more than A '57 Chevy that's been in a farmer's field for 40 years. And there's a whole lot of room between those two points, condition and price wise.

A machine used for years makes me think wear.

I like 16's. They are heavy but not obscene, in the area of 2600-2800 lbs. So pretty stable for small work.

Power requirements not bad, probably 1.5 to 3hp motor.

For an antique, there are still parts and accessories to be found. Its a relatively, simple design, so repairs and tear down may be easier than others. Even worse comes to worse, finding more complete and total 16's is not difficult, and cost wise not terrible.

Thanks for the quick response texasgunsmith, i added a link to a photo of it, not the best quality photo though. I believe the price will include a couple of small boxes of tooling, do you think I should try and negotiate with the seller or keep the karma for a rainy day? I’m not choking on the asking price, but I am Irish and I like a good deal.
I have searched the web for almost every SB 16 video so far, did you by chance post one about a turret lathe?
Thanks again.

I run a shop specialising in automotive machine work, but end up doing all kinds of things. For many years my only lathe was a South Bend 16, with a 6 foot bed. I have several lathes now, and still use that particular 16 constantly. I often use it with collets, on parts down to 1/4 inch or so. And I also regularly have parts as large as a crankshaft in the 4 jaw. I have made hydraulic cylinder parts, and even done metric threading (it is not a metric machine). It has proven to be a very reliable, accurate workhorse in the shop for me.

Many will say it is not as much lathe as say a Monarch or Leblond, and they are correct. But I do not do production work with it, and it has proven able to be pushed pretty hard at times. I have only had to do basic maintenance and repairs. Frankly, it has not cost me anything, I have made much, much more money with it than I have spent. I find the 16 to be far more useful than say a 10L (which I also own)and not take up much more room.

The machine you have pictured is actually a 16/24. It has riser blocks installed to increase the swing. That machine I have found to be a bit awkward on the smallest parts, but for lighter wok on lager parts they are nice. Go for it. Put it this way, if you don't want it, I would be interested.

Years ago I ran a Pacemaker that was in the 24 inch swing range, and running that machine all day could really wear you out. Don't get me wrong, it could peal metal like no tomorrow. A really awesome machine. But for lighter work was just a bear. The South Bend is much easier to handle, the carriage is light and smooth, and the machine is quieter if that means anything to you.

I hope this helps.

Marc

Thanks V8packard, that definitely helps. I have asked a couple of friends about it, one said he’d give me cash just to hand over the sellers info. I noticed the risers and thought they looked a bit “simple” to increase the capacity. I was worried it would be very heavy to operate and not lend well to running smaller work.
I will likely be using it a few times a week for not much more than 30-60min in a day. That being said, my “cash-in-hand” friend suggested I should never limit myself if I have the space.
Do you, off hand, know about what the footprint is? The seller said it was about 8’ long.
Thanks.

If it is an 8 foot bed, it is just about 100-102 inches long and about 42 or so inches wide with the taper attachment. A bit over 4 feet tall. The model number will end in "E" if it is an 8 foot bed, and you will have about 52 inches or so max between the chuck and the tailstock center. The swing over the ways is almost 25 inches, and 18-19 inches over the cross slide. The model number will tell you a lot, as will the serial number. For example, CL198E is a 4 step cone pulley single speed motor, 8 speeds total. CL195E will be a two speed motor, three step cone pulley, 12 speeds total.By the looks of it, I would guess that is a mid-late 1950's built lathe.

Marc

Thanks again, for all of the great info. Is there anything that I should specifically look for? I am going to look at the lathe today. Is there any problem areas for damage or wear on these lathes?

Keep in mind there are lots of machines in your area...how much are they asking?

StainingSteel said:

Thanks again, for all of the great info. Is there anything that I should specifically look for? I am going to look at the lathe today. Is there any problem areas for damage or wear on these lathes?

Click to expand...

Look for the usual stuff, bed wear and backlash. Obvious signs of crashing in the compound and so on. These are not deal breakers, just things to keep mindful. Run the spindle with and without the gear train engaged. A good machine will be pretty quit. Honestly, for the price you mentioned, you would be fine unless it is a total wreck. Grab the serial number, it is on the flat of the bed next to the front way at the tailstock end. And get more pictures..

Good luck!

Marc

Hey iwananew10k, it is listed for less than a thousand dollars, the seller seems reasonable and as though he really wants it gone. I have been hunting for a decent, operating, lathe that has most of its components for several months. The only ones that I have been able to find are 120+ miles from me, this one is only 18mi.
The other thing I have run into, as I expected, the people selling smaller lathes are asking three or four times what this one is listed for. Off hand I would have kept searching for an affordable lathe in the 9x24” range, but this one was the right price and just a stones throw down the road.

Thanks Marc, I will be sure to take as many pictures as the seller will allow.
As added info, his house shares a driveway with a large welding and fabrication shop. The owner has two pole barns that, from google, look to be 30’x80’ and the lathe is in one of them.
I also noticed in his photo that he has some parts for pre 1980s British cars, I might be able to work a trade for labor into the deal.
I will let you all know what comes of it in a few hours.

What part of Mi are you...I don't have anything else to do, and I'll search your area for other options if that one doesn't pan out.

I’m in West Michigan, I typically search from Grand Haven to Lansing, Kalamazoo up to Big Rapids. I appreciate the help.
Thanks.

The guy practically talked my ear off. He had a bunch of stuff in his shop and in the way, so I had a hard time getting any other photos of it. It starts, runs, forward and reverse, feeds the saddle but the cross feed selector was sticking and wouldn't go into place.
The motor/ belt release lever was stuck so I couldn't change the belt position and there were some heavy (lengthwise) gouging in the bed ways. The saddle bed ways looked decent and would clean up, but the tailstock bed ways had some marring from something hitting them near the head stock.
All in all the damage that it had was what I expected, some and heavy, but not everywhere. The seller said he has gotten four or five other people asking for photos, but I was the first to take a look at it.
It is wired for 220 currently and ran quiet. When the lead screw was engaged it was near whisper quiet. I had it running and I could talk in a calm low voice to the seller who was about eight feet away.
The whole lathe was covered in oily dust and under the belt/pulley cover there was a fair amount of dried greasy-dust.
It was hard to measure with everything in the way but it seemed to be 8’ from one end to the next overall.
Here are the only photos that turned out decent. His shop was lit, damn-near, by candle light. I think I counted 3 lightbulbs and a wood fired stove.
SB 16/24 engine lathe - Album on Imgur

Let me know what you think.
Thanks.

Tried posting this earlier but something happened...
I went to look at the lathe about an hour.
For starters, this guys shop is full of old GM car parts. 16’ tall racks of parts, cars cut apart and lining the building. I think he is afraid of light because I think there were three lights in the entire shop, practically lit with candles.

Because of the amount of stuff in front of the lathe, and the bobcat that was blocking access to it, it was difficult to work around it. I did get a couple of photos, but most of them were very blurry due to the lack of light. Here is all that turned out:
SB 16/24 engine lathe - Album on Imgur

The lathe was overall in decent shape, almost no scaling/ rust to speak of but it was covered in a good amount of shop dust. I brought rags, paper towels, spray oil, etc. to clean some areas. I went through a half roll of paper towels and a couple pairs of gloves.

Head stock end:
I could not open the covers to look at the gears or the QCGB but I did look under the pulley cover. There was a fair bit of greasy-dust buildup around the pulleys and belt. I opened the motor door about 1/3 the way and looked in. I saw that someone had messed with the wiring because the wires were pulled out somewhat.
The QCGB was very stiff to select different gears, but I did get them to engage. Forward and reverse feeding works well and runs very quiet, like whisper quiet. I turned the lathe on, it started with no hesitation or noise, and with it drawing the carriage I could still talk to the seller in a low voice with him working about 8 ft away.
The carriage seems to all work but I could not get the power cross feed to engage, felt like it was all gummed up. That being said, everything seemed to move with fairly minimal back lash and moved smoothly.

Bed ways:
The ways for the carriage looked alright for the most part but there were three or four heavy gouges on the inner faces, maybe 6” long and deep enough to catch a fingernail on. The tailstock ways looked great on the far end but there were some good dents near the head stock l, maybe first 12-18” had some marks.

Frame and lower:
The frame looked good, no noticeable damage but I could not lift the motor to disengage the drive belt. The handle was frozen in place. Most of paint looked to be in decent condition, maybe 85% still there without chips.

Overall:
It doesn’t come with much in the way of tooling, just a few holders, a few HSS cutters, and that’s about it. It does have a approx. 9” three jaw and a 16 or 18” facing plate, no dogs, but a few original wrenches. It is extremely dirty, 1/8-1/4 of shop dust and grease all over it, but it did seem to clean up well.
He said he would take $800, so I am going to call him back.
Let me know what you think and if anything seems to worry you.

I’d say $800 for a working 16 x 6 is a go. It will do everything a 9” or Heavy 10 that sell for much more $$$ will do plus a lot more.

I agree with the above. I've run 16s for awhile and like everyone is saying, they are a work horse, that isn't huge, and is fairly easy to repair.

Sent from my S60 using Tapatalk

seems you got a lathe...congrats!

Absolutely for $800. Kinda hard to go wrong. If it were me I might take the riser blocks out and use at as a 16 for comfortable work height, though I'm not sure what they do on gear end.

Major pluses from your pics: chip pan, taper attachment, micrometer stop, and thread dial.

So I will have more photos coming, but here are the photos from today. A short story inside.
Thank you for all of the help. I will show the lathe as I clean it and help it a bit. For now I have found that the ways are in better condition than expected. Also, everything moves smoothly with a good film of oil in and on them.

The little SB 16/24 asked to come home with me... - Album on Imgur

Thanks.