New Guy with a SB 13 and a few Questions

1952B3b23 · Aug 15, 2017

Hey Guys,

My name is Chris and i recently bought this 13" South Bend off of Craigslist. I'm new to machining and i'm looking forward to learning a lot here. The lathe will help me with my hot rod and antique car projects. As well as different pieces of tooling for metal shaping.

A friend of mine came over and showed me how to run it a little bit. It seems to work pretty well but i do have some questions.

1. Can someone decode the serial number, 10152TKX14? The catalog number isn't stamped into the gear box tag which i find kind of strange.

2. I've looked at a bunch of pictures of other 13" SB's and they all seem to have a 4 step cone pulley. Mine is only 3. I'm wondering if someone swapped parts on it at some point?

3. For tooling, should i stick to regular HSS or try carbide? I'm tempted to try grinding my own out of HSS.

Here's some stuff that I've done to it since I've had it... I bought a new leather belt from Hudson Belting in Worcester MA. Replaced the two old V-belts that where all stretched and cracked. I got a Phase II quick change tool post (wedge style). I also bought the proper SB lathe oils off eBay and cleaned and re-oiled the lathe. I picked up a trav-a-dial off of eBay to mount to the carriage as well.

Thanks in advance for any info,

-Chris

hsracer201 · Aug 16, 2017

South Bend Lathe Co.

This will help with your serial number.

How's the backlash on the compound and cross slide? New nuts sometimes make a big difference.

1952B3b23 · Aug 17, 2017

hsracer201 said:
South Bend Lathe Co.

This will help with your serial number.

How's the backlash on the compound and cross slide? New nuts sometimes make a big difference.

I used the following website to get some info on the serial number:

http://www.wswells.com/serial_number.html

Judging from that i believe my lathe is from '64-'66. With that said the backlash doesn't seem too be terrible. I just remove it before taking a reading to make the depth of cut that i want. It would be nice to have little to no backlash, so maybe new nuts will be in the cards at some point.

-Chris

Rudd · Aug 17, 2017

I've got that lathe's grandad - 1941. I use carbide when turning cast iron or hogging off steel. Also use the carbide lay-down threading inserts. Other than that, HSS does the job just fine. I was working on a project a couple days ago and could not find the nice 1/8" radius carbide tool I bought for a job in CI. The part called for a 1/8" convex radius between two surfaces. This was brass, I grabbed a hunk-o-HSS, my radius gauges, and headed to the grinder. Had it done in half the time I spent looking for that darn carbide cutter.
I'd really encourage you to grind your own. Even if you go to carbide later, when the carbide cutter isn't doing what you need it to do, you'll at least know why that is.
I've picked up quantities of HSS bits at estate sales and here and there. Looking at some of the grinds those old men did taught me a lot.

1952B3b23 · Aug 18, 2017

Rudd said:
I've got that lathe's grandad - 1941. I use carbide when turning cast iron or hogging off steel. Also use the carbide lay-down threading inserts. Other than that, HSS does the job just fine. I was working on a project a couple days ago and could not find the nice 1/8" radius carbide tool I bought for a job in CI. The part called for a 1/8" convex radius between two surfaces. This was brass, I grabbed a hunk-o-HSS, my radius gauges, and headed to the grinder. Had it done in half the time I spent looking for that darn carbide cutter.
I'd really encourage you to grind your own. Even if you go to carbide later, when the carbide cutter isn't doing what you need it to do, you'll at least know why that is.
I've picked up quantities of HSS bits at estate sales and here and there. Looking at some of the grinds those old men did taught me a lot.

Does your lathe have the 3 step cone pulley instead of the 4?

That's a good point. It will definitely be helpful for me to know how to grind my own tools. I'll buy some HSS stock online and get to learning.

-Chris

GenePoole · Aug 18, 2017

1952B3b23 said:
Does your lathe have the 3 step cone pulley instead of the 4?

That's a good point. It will definitely be helpful for me to know how to grind my own tools. I'll buy some HSS stock online and get to learning.

-Chris

I have a 1966 SB13 that started life as a turret lathe. I thought that was the reason for the 3-cone pulley, but the turret lathes of that era also had a very large cross-slide handwheel which yours does not have.

Here is mine undergoing a belt change. You can see the handwheel I'm talking about:

1yOICql14t-q_kPcsPZXPTmrlOU24csj9zAx_FSARWg_ShujhShPJ0l-eQb5yoEIhIEGIFMekUgouHAQMQSTaXHDnjvzyykB6WDPem26wmJhbDfeq_xXd9kYGadS7b8VtnvZTOSyGx2rIekp6VC62R0KN3gQ0Juz-JH3-c92NuZ9kz2UzCofHo2iht3cNHLHUWECPCyCJJ2nqLbK5Lymke0rFKQPxqFsnx6ar45mOayXuxuytuYK3EUNgf99J5IyOxWMhQPA9JBzmLXd61WupJQWHPaxfmKeplANczDzITuEr3MRso4AlPacH7RfJT0FvUwpGmn4cRu3p0dJJ1dAOPSPx76q5aUTmS9iPD5CMXlfq0fjCpSsXn24drAicnkIS9Q_JFJuwHs461XK7LC4KXSmni4bZPgxon7-7Y-EaZEwMNdYEZuOuDZUAA8W_GF3iRjAL6GRzCjzH1EVzt1LF4CJMyv4zaOMMoPYikBpiwS-6zAetPQiET3t1_GtoFru2vRhuE0IJIovorqAQ0iCXwIgVgSkD2LrO2D-QHTAPVNWZNUBvHfIMrJ0sJMSx3q9J4uNDY2vHfNfzUHs7y4Ro_3br-r_q0Eu31pIeo5byl3Zj8xOukktdTxOq8d4Hnl_j0vD4-PxpGpHvX8BZXRV6B_mXkKiAD0yuRjDb84gG8jVC-w=w1024

Close up of dial:

3yhLKYFcXprvFFKC4FSEEAucYIVQzRvNXeJMCGV3Edi4Lnb4Re6SgnhUsk_6WNHCXoXT9mOz2Ko1RKBD9b_YLsF_XAikuMk7KWV9YH5YfYkxKnVygwhC_HITAimPhSo5nw2bop8aeeoOMm1UwHaJWzIEM3y1xhy3B2-9p-c8kn35tFM8O5XepIIGmLLAvVHjqHy6fowbMAH3lVyDZFyftExHnj0Rt012KdP6EYCLa1rToCZc1BfNOXHB3O6OeyxGZ61xLXMpJqa6A-I5fQPQk6rkd-bJnhnamfZqNJCZALdCZxS6n6dkJAPCEvi_oNOHfdnf6AERcw7oYboO913kVbBjOYJyQuUBD5HTxUCZvV6Qh4isdJQ9MTCN41gsPALGDkD6h7HZUp6oMTw_eKvbo4wQTQg4Uu2JqfG16ScA-n38ilEzai5tLKwjcckXBHhhOaJN9PHXoyVgJt3hkig6tICDttySKxxHhy8Ss5xOWx1L9oJ-juy3rUm5pLCY-WD4AngYQ4SrjCTdINjnF1vvEXdQkaho2iRDhy5lrK69x0l6vrap3GtoDOkOZfeZt9ZBmHw56IcTFKj2mL8nXvrjUenVl7gMcFkpUmBSwpFBtdBKJH9HyMi8MMF5gbmytAMJg9sT7how-B8cihB0A0irgbkBwJgb9u5sJTN2-pWFR2JY39E=w1024

comstockfriend · Aug 18, 2017

Here's the speed chart for the 13" 3 step from HTRAL of this lathe's vintage (Low Speeds are only available with 2 speed motor):

...Direct Belt Drive../...Back Gear
High 940 497 270 / 135 71 40
Low. 470 248 135 / 67 35 20

For 13" and 13" Turret Lathes with three step pulleys. (Hard to make a chart on PM!)

John

1952B3b23 · Aug 18, 2017

comstockfriend said:
Here's the speed chart for the 13" 3 step from HTRAL of this lathe's vintage (Low Speeds are only available with 2 speed motor):

...Direct Belt Drive../...Back Gear
High 940 497 270 / 135 71 40
Low. 470 248 135 / 67 35 20

For 13" and 13" Turret Lathes with three step pulleys. (Hard to make a chart on PM!)

John

Thanks for posting that John. My motor thats currently on the lathe is a 3 phase single speed (1.5 hp). There is a small tag under the cover for the cone pulley that has the RPM stamped into it. It's definitely not the original tag. I'll post a picture of it when i get a chance.

GenePoole, Thanks for the info. Thats interesting that your lathe started off as a turret lathe. I wonder why some had 3 step cone pulleys and others had 4?

-Chris

comstockfriend · Aug 18, 2017

1952B3b23 said:
There is a small tag under the cover for the cone pulley that has the RPM stamped into it. It's definitely not the original tag. I'll post a picture of it when i get a chance.

I have a Cal Poly engineering school lathe (4 step pulley). The speeds are stamped on an aluminum plate above the gear box plate:

South Bend didn't speed any time letting the user know the spindle speeds...

John

Rudd · Aug 19, 2017

Four step. I was thinking about this - I wonder if the reduction in speed ranges might be associated with carbide becoming widely available.

Hey Ted! Any thoughts on this?

The HSS sold online today ain't what HSS used to be. I've got some Chinee HSS, it doesn't hold a candle to the old US made stuff. Look for names like REX, MoMax, Cleveland, Etc.

1952B3b23 said:
Does your lathe have the 3 step cone pulley instead of the 4?

That's a good point. It will definitely be helpful for me to know how to grind my own tools. I'll buy some HSS stock online and get to learning.

-Chris

SBLatheman · Aug 19, 2017

Rudd said:
Four step. I was thinking about this - I wonder if the reduction in speed ranges might be associated with carbide becoming widely available.

Hey Ted! Any thoughts on this?

The HSS sold online today ain't what HSS used to be. I've got some Chinee HSS, it doesn't hold a candle to the old US made stuff. Look for names like REX, MoMax, Cleveland, Etc.

Normally, the 3-step cone was used with a 2-speed motor. The 3 steps are wider for a wider belt (more traction).
These were designed for production machines (like a turret lathe)
Ted

GenePoole · Aug 22, 2017

I managed to find the first picture of our South Bend turret lathe. Picked it up from a foundry where it had sat for years and was slated for scrap.

YaP5zS-T8eAtPfEdvAw5Zq03lIOAAFdhuQAGoo7bT46RoATy7SkLJ8Xm-IN4p-dCjpUXoXAdvzW7l56dk8Z6mlmxWql4P7TlYHOoSZI7ZNCGMsC2vmdAX5r-Ac3MAbZg8dbF-aJrM9jBSi8EAlrayLP53YchzzSCM543QiGIOalrt7V1LKmISxRXtvhukpQ3JSLO8XddtzqRJIK0fSAdgc7MNQGZr1zhljlkyy35CAxyhX8xBgP-l3hC8N439y3wPue3RgiBWulLbpiFop752uSKnbS79XJwWVw8lD_ctkgXzDP6DnFcit9RR5v3ZI7gYdA9K5n2zZmf0WMAWI7vBe-ZdPJRjgCeEMUW7D36vyjvnonKLe3IPr7QgxBJThpsw4NO2YKO9v1mMWev1m-hADRgJJps7CfNOy7KMyCeriSBHIQzPQWgDqbdPgDqG05swz7IQb3mf9F1AqK80mHqI1f3gUQ3VVgs1OERPGF_5u_ypsJQ8ufBN-icXAJ0WVLARY9B16DD-UnQy3gJC_7vYHvpJLj0erbiCCZLFSIFJ4jZ-nB0-OSGTRp6hjuYOqzme2R8z1QdngQJYL-uWreCZIXFHq__FsNHD877L8HbfIiYeF9ZufhVuE-bx4e3aRFxUPth3F-vOonQr-OLqq2wHkm3UC0sDZoL7c61wDSteyhGwtQ=w1024

1952B3b23 · Aug 24, 2017

comstockfriend said:
I have a Cal Poly engineering school lathe (4 step pulley). The speeds are stamped on an aluminum plate above the gear box plate:

View attachment 206135

South Bend didn't speed any time letting the user know the spindle speeds...

John

Here is a picture of the RPM tag on my lathe. It looks like someone removed the original tag and put this in it's place.

-Chris

1952B3b23 · Aug 24, 2017

SBLatheman said:
Normally, the 3-step cone was used with a 2-speed motor. The 3 steps are wider for a wider belt (more traction).
These were designed for production machines (like a turret lathe)
Ted

Thanks for this bit of info. Now i know the motor on my lathe isn't the original. Not to surprising i suppose.

-Chris

1952B3b23 · Aug 24, 2017

So the other day i was talking with my neighbor who's father passed away a couple years ago. She mentioned to me that her dad use to be a machinist. I told her that i just recently bought a lathe and was starting to get into it. Then she tells me that her dad had some old tools up in the attic if i was interested. Of course i said yes and up into the attic we go. There sits a pristine looking Kennedy Tool Box. I pop the top and start to quickly look through the drawers and such. I'm instantly amazed at how nice of condition everything was in. Most of the dial indicators and some of the other tooling are still in the original Starrett and Brown and Sharpe cases/ boxes! As i open the bottom drawer one certain tool catches my eye, the Indian motorcycle adjustable wrench. I asked about it and she told me that he use to work at Indian (in Springfield) as a machinist (sometime during the late 40's early 50's). Then for a different company, also in Springfield. She tells me shes going to talk to her husband and see if he wanted any of the stuff and that she would let me know. The next day after work i see them across the street. She waves me over and tells me that i can have the box if i want. We exchange some cash and away i go smiling from ear to ear! I've attached some pictures of the different stuff i got. I'm really excited to have this stuff and i'm sure i'll put it to good use over the years to come.

The pictures will be split up in different posts. I can only post 5 at a time.

-Chris

1952B3b23 · Aug 24, 2017

More pics.

1952B3b23 · Aug 24, 2017

Even more pics.

Rudd · Aug 24, 2017

Looks like you must be living right! Enough tooling to get you started good. I see the original owner of that box really appreciated fine design work...(1st pic, post 17)
I'm kind of surprised there wasn't a drawer with all the "special grind" HSS the guy used, especially since there is a lantern type tool holder in there.

1952B3b23 · Aug 25, 2017

Rudd said:
Looks like you must be living right! Enough tooling to get you started good. I see the original owner of that box really appreciated fine design work...(1st pic, post 17)
I'm kind of surprised there wasn't a drawer with all the "special grind" HSS the guy used, especially since there is a lantern type tool holder in there.

That's one of my favorite pieces in the box lol! The funny part is that the flip side of that picture is a mirror, and i also found a small comb in the top of the box. He must of been trying to look good for someone.

Yea there are only a few pieces of HSS tooling for the lantern holder. I would expect there to be more. I've been searching around at flea markets for older HSS steel that i can grind new profiles into or at least sharpen. I've come across some pieces. But the issue im having is that i can't really tell what the tools are meant to do (newbie problems). Some that i have seen have really funny looking grinds. I should have taken pictures, i'm sure someone here would know.

-Chris

steve-l · Aug 25, 2017

Today there is much better HSS tooling than was available in the 60s and 70s. Try to find cobalt alloy tool bits like M35 and M42 and T15 as well as other US equivalents. You will find that they will work better on your lathe than more modern carbide insert type tooling. Modern insert tooling uses more tool pressure and likes higher speeds. Your lathe doesn't have either the required stiffness or speed.

New Guy with a SB 13 and a few Questions

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