New to Lathes

I'm a teacher by trade and enjoy rebuilding motorcycles and old things. My late father began his career as a machinist at Sandia Labs but regrettably I never took the opportunity to learn the skill from him. Anyway, I traded a bridle for this lathe and am trying to get it going so I can use it to build parts for my projects. I know that it is a South Bend and I believe it is a 9" workshop model c. I can't seem to find pictures of the tailstock on the lathe and the bull gear seems different as it has a screw to engage not the spring loaded pin from the parts diagrams I have found. I am concerned that the bull gear was not a pressed fit and is loose on the spindle. The motor has a homemade mount and a v pulley has been modified for the drive. I disassembled the lathe, cleaned it, replace the felt and the bearing oilers. It now runs but makes a knocking noise that I think is coming from the loose bull gear. I would sure appreciate help with identifying the tailstock and any advice on the bull gear issue. Thanks

At least part of that lathe is a late model 9C. But I would call that a Frankenlathe. Bits and pieces have been taken off other pieces of equipment and made to work on that machine. To start with, A V-belt pulley has been attached to the center pulley. It looks like the handle off of Bridgeport milling machine is used In place of the longitudinal crank. The crossfeed dial has been replaced, But I can't tell much about the crossfeed itself. And the half nut handle Is at a weird angle. The Tail stock looks like it might be Off a wood lathe.

We would have to have more pictures to tell you whether that machine is worth bringing back to original condition as far as parts goes. Pictures of the bed, headstock, cross slide assembly. And you would have to take the apron off the machine for us to tell what's going on with that half nut lever. What kind of drive unit is on the machine. And what can you afford to put into the machine. As it stands now, that machine may be worth more in parts than as a working machine, but this is an unknown. Condition of the bed and spindle bearings is everything. if those two items are in good shape, you at least have a chance on making it good lathe out of it.

I don't want to discourage you but we need more information/pictures.

Stay safe and have fun.

Joe.

It's a frankenlathe, but that is not necessarily bad. I don't think the TS is from a wood lathe due to having an (apparently original?) cross/offset key & base. It is also stout enough for the 9" whatever the source, but has been risered to match the headstock height. Could have been done very well, or could be an abortion. You will have to test center height, parallelism of extension with the ways. and whether it tilts down or excessively up, or is correct that way, too.

No intent to be rude, you do know how to engage/disengage the bull gear with the sliding pin on the side of it, right?

smt

No worries on commenting on my abilities as they are surely limited. From what I have learned the bull gear has a "plunger" that is used to engage it. This "frankenlathe" has a slotted screw that you have you have to screw in to engage the bull gear and the gear is loose and wobbles on the spindle. As for the tailstock I did have the opportunity to drill a hole in a piece of 3/4" it seemed centered to me.

I'd like to add that since you aren't familiar with lathes to begin with that you should get hold of a copy of South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe" (doesn't matter which printing). Read it thoroughly a couple of times as it will shorten the early learning curve quite a bit.

Here is a link to a .pdf version on my server - http://www.arcaneiron.com/shovelhead/HowtoRunaLathe.pdf

Hope that helps,

-Ron

OHO. (said in a bad way, sorry.) There is no back gear installed. So the "bull gear" is just a place marker to drive the flat belt cone?

Or is the flat belt cone somehow fixed independently to the spindle (shouldn't be on a SB).

To clarify, does turning the flat belt cone force the spindle to turn? or is everything loose?

(rereading your OP): Is sounds like the cone is fixed and drives the spindle. In that case, you don't need to worry about the bull gear, because it has no use without a back gear.

If you have the back gear set in a box and plan to use it, then the bull gear needs to be a keyed press fit on the spindle, and the belt cone has to be loose on the lathe spindle, but not wobble when you pull the pin. It is and should feel like a wheel on a bearing.

smt

Thanks so much Ron! I have watched the video on youtube but will sure study that. I usually get more from reading anyway.

No worries SMT and thanks for having the patience to respond to what to you is a silly question. Have not reinstalled the back gear yet as lathe came without the stop-screw/nut and the screw spring and shoe to adjust . Tried with bull gear disengaged and the chuck did turn slower. Turns much quicker with the bull gear engaged (screw tightened).

I guess I had the half nut lever position a bit off. It appears to be missing a pin on one of the channels. Maybe this is why the auto feed is spotty?

I'm not sure where you want to go with this lathe but a bull gear that is loose on the spindle and half nuts that don't stay engaged suggest that you may want to look for something else.

Thanks for the advice Ken. To be honest I was not in the market for a lathe and like the challenge of fixing things up. My way of looking at it if I can spend a few bucks and hours and end up with something I can make some simple parts on I'm fine. I guess I should have started my post with this info. My original question was regarding the bull gear(is it from this lathe) and the tailstock(looks kinda like a Hercus), I already had the feeling that the lathe is probably not something anyone with any knowledge would pay anything for. So instead of selling it for parts I'm going to try to get it going. If I fail I will have some real cheap parts to get rid of.

In that case, there's a few tools you will need, other than the basic hand tools. You'll need a small set of micrometers, a 1" and 2", Or a good digital caliper. A good dial indicator, with magnetic base. And a set of telescopic inside gauges, For measuring inside diameters. Don't trust a digital caliper for this. A set of small expanding boar gauge is also helpful. Start by taking everything apart. Take pictures as you go. As you identify areas that are questionable, submit the pictures here. Someone will probably be able to help you sort through the problems and fix them. Go with the theory, If it isn't broke, don't fix it. That is, if it seems to work reasonably Well, You can fix it later, When you have the time and money. You want to identify the big problems first, and establish the cost of repair from that point. Set a budget that you can live with. and try to stay within that budget. Although the value of the learning experiences very high, you don't want to put your money into a money pit. If the cost to fix it, is going to exceed its ultimate value to you, regardless of the market value, you may want to rethink the project. Let us help you identify the problems before you start sinking money into it. But only you can determine how much you are willing to spend.

Stay safe and have fun.

Joe.

I applaud your initiative and endorse the learning experience.

It is a model C, so it does not have power facing. All longitudinal work under power whether threading or just feeding for turning is through the leadscrew threads. So the threads get worn out. (On B & A models, the feed for turning is through the keyway on the leadscrew to some internal gearing and then to the rack & includes a clutch. The leadscrew threads are preserved only for threading. This separation of functions is true on any good lathe). Getting down to brass tacks, the question is: did you get a set of change gears with the lathe?

smt

man...I hope this doesn't come off badly but I see a complete sb9C likely near you for 700 bucks, gears, some tooling too.

Just at a glance I see you dropping at least that much to fix this one.

something really weird about that tailstock, that my eyes can't quite pick up on- that drill chuck is on a collet adapter arbor or there is a strange taper on the end of the tailstock spindle- not saying it doesn't work as is but are you able to change out that chuck for a live or dead center?

The compound is actually from a 10L- so either someone turned down the spud on the compound to fit the hole in the cross slide or someone made the hole in the cross slide bigger to take the 10L compound.

The problem there is you don't have much room for tooling since the 10L compound is taller than the 9" compound....the good new is that 10L compound looks to be in pretty good shape so if the spud on the bottom wasn't turned down you have a quick 200 bucks you *could* put toward the purchase of a better machine.

The carriage is missing the wipers, the halfnut lever cooked, likely the halfnuts too, leadscrew is probably very worn, someone broke/lost the bullgear pin and tapped it for a bolt, the mating hole in the cone pulley is likely wallowed out letting the bolt slap around and over time has apparently loosened up the bullgear, if that is even a bullgear at all because it looks like a standard change gear someone monkeyed on there, and the cone is worthless for changing speeds since they turned off the center step and pressed on a v pulley anyway.

add in the fact that it is running direct to the motor with no countershaft reduction its really hard to make a case to save it and it may not even be safe to use and I am anything but a safety nanny.

It has *serious* issues.

I can certainly understand wanting to fix something so don't take this post the wrong way....I just hate to see a guy about to go down the rabbit hole.

Don't be discouraged. You can do a lot of work with an old, junk lathe. I have been playing with several for years. I recommend "The Amateur's Lathe" written by L.H. Sparey, as a way to further enlightenment. You can find it new or used at abebooks.com. Regards Clark

QT: [traded a bridle for this lathe]

If perhaps $100 bridle into it then not bad.. it is a turning machine at best if you can get the clunking out.. but to be a fun lathe you should have change gears for threading. Think I would advertise for perhaps $300 and then buy a lathe with a QC box or set of gears, thread dial and more stuff.
Yes you likely can buy a set of gears for $200 with hoping the lathe is still all there so everything fits.

likely to cost $600 to 3500 for a running SB about that size. so you could make a list of parts needed and add it up.
Fugged up tail looks having short travel..not a deal breaker as it looks enough.

Thanks for all the honest opinions and good advice. I sure see the wisdom of spending more on a good tool. I'm not so into horses as I once was so the bridle to me was worth $50 at most. I actually made a pellet gun target for my girls Xmas gift today and used this lathe to drill a nice hole in the center of the 3/4" rod for the rotating targets. Man was it slick and easy compare to trying to find the center with my drill press. Would I build parts for the family airplane, no, but for my old tractors, motorcycles,and trailers I think I will be fine for a while. So already I am using it for exactly what I wanted and hopefully learning so when and if I want a nice lathe I will know what to look for. Boy would I be broken hearted if I shelled out a bunch of cash for this one. So thanks guys. Call it a practice lathe. Also I think I might invest in a better half nut handle and maybe a correct bull gear. What do you think maybe $100 and if they don't work I could always put them back in my eventual parts lot?

Ebay has a lot of stuff. A die set is low priced for simple threads...Goods the girls are shooters. Good game is for each to watch the other for a wrong pointing of a gun.. each time counts as a penalty they don't like.
A bullet can go through a wall so even that can be a wrong pointing and so a penalty.

*Good to have a serious contest with targets and keeping score.