New SB1001

mikbul · Oct 22, 2013

Not much to complain about except 4.5MT to 3MT sleeve is off. Spindle run out is good, not measurable with my .030 test dial. Sending sleeve to Miller Machine to sort it out. That's where I got my test bar.

BTW heck of a sale price at Grizzly right now.

mikbul · Oct 22, 2013

Another photo of the holder I made for my test indicator that clamps in my boring bar holder.

That's my Miller Machine 3MT test bar in the spindle. One of the best investments I've made!

michiganbuck · Oct 22, 2013

So what do you get at the wheel head and 3 inches out of the 3 jaw.

mikbul · Oct 22, 2013

I always used a four jaw chuck on my 7X16 so I never got anything to check chuck run out. The 7X16 is a 3MT spindle so I used the 3MT test bar to check head stock, tail stock, etc. alignment. I've got a shock I can put in the band saw and cut the ends off and make a test bar to put in the chuck. I'll get back to you
Picked up a piece at the local machine shop today, just have to cut the booger off the end. Charged me $5., wasn't really worth their time.

mikbul · Oct 26, 2013

mikbul said:
I always used a four jaw chuck on my 7X16 so I never got anything to check chuck run out. The 7X16 is a 3MT spindle so I used the 3MT test bar to check head stock, tail stock, etc. alignment. I've got a shock I can put in the band saw and cut the ends off and make a test bar to put in the chuck. I'll get back to you
Picked up a piece at the local machine shop today, just have to cut the booger off the end. Charged me $5., wasn't really worth their time. View attachment 89018

Chucked up the bar after work yesterday and got 1.5 and 1.5. Not good. Worse is when I spun the bar and re-tightened it got worse. My fault for doing a half ass job of cleaning the chuck and looking for burs etc. I don't believe the chuck was made in the same factory as the good SB chucks so we'll see today. I'll pull it apart and clean it instead of doucheing it with WD40

Cole2534 · Oct 26, 2013

.0015" radial runout for a ground bar in a 3 jaw seems quite acceptable.

Mcandrew1894 · Oct 26, 2013

I agree...3 jaw's aren't collets. I'd be happy with that.

rbent · Oct 26, 2013

You have .0015 runout on a non set tru 3 jaw and you are complaining?

mikbul · Oct 27, 2013

Not complaining, repeatability for a 3-jaw chuck is way out (1.5 one time and 5 the next)so I'm re-cleaning it. I know it will never be perfect but I think some things hanging up. Like I said my fault I didn't clean it that well. Also I need to retract my statement about the chuck, it does say South Bend on it and I missed it, I probably didn't have my glasses on. Sorry Pappy

mikbul · Oct 27, 2013

Still cleaning the chuck but meanwhile I re-cleaned the spindle taper, sleeve and Miller test bar and got half a thou at the spindle and 4 at twelve inches which is better than last time. Inside the sleeve was half a thou and inside the spindle was not measurable on my indicator (.030). Tiny deflection of the needle is all I get.

michiganbuck · Oct 27, 2013

“except 4.5MT to 3MT sleeve is off. “ I AM not surprised as it is not easy to make taper to taper sleevs.

Do you have #3 MT in head stock, If so how does that run, should be zero.
Close and three inches out is the range I think fair for a for a low price chuck. Out much past three inches is not a good cutting area so one should consider a center, steady or some way of support.
I agree .0015 is very close for simple three jaw.

Miller test bar.. does it have centers? if so does it check good between centers?
"Just looked up miller test bar = zero run out between centers .0000 ,That is good."

mikbul · Oct 27, 2013

michiganbuck said:
“except 4.5MT to 3MT sleeve is off. “ I AM not surprised as it is not easy to make taper to taper sleevs.

Do you have #3 MT in head stock, If so how does that run, should be zero.
Close and three inches out is the range I think fair for a for a low price chuck. Out much past three inches is not a good cutting area so one should consider a center, steady or some way of support.
I agree .0015 is very close for simple three jaw.

Miller test bar.. does it have centers? if so does it check good between centers?
"Just looked up miller test bar = zero run out between centers .0000 ,That is good."

That's the problem, the headstock is 4.5MT and the Miller test bar is 3MT. They give you a sleeve with it to bring it down to 3MT that's where I get the run out with the sleeve, which shows up with the Miller test bar.

I also have a small short ground bar to use in the chuck, maybe 5" or so long, to check chuck run out. The chuck issue I think is my fault, it's wasn't cleaned out good enough so it sticks when you re-chuck the short bar.

The spindle inside run out is not measurable. With the 4.5MT sleeve it's a half a thou. If the sleeve was offset exactly a half a thou from centerline then I should get a half a thou at 12" with the Miller test bar. I don't, I get four so the two tapers in the sleeve are not concentric. talked to him and asked if I should buy one of his or send mine for him to sort out. He said he could sort mine out.
I hope this is making sense?
Mike

mikbul · Oct 27, 2013

After re-cleaning the chuck my first reading was O! I loosened the chuck and spun the bar between readings:
2. .001
3. .001
4. .001
Much better than before.

Ignore the 2nd photo, it's a mistake. BTW , while I was soaking the chuck I was spinning the scroll and once in awhile it would jam, doesn't do that now. must have been a piece of crud under the scroll. drowned it in vactrose II and spins nice now.

Wish I could remember the sequence that got me 0! Probably hoping for too much with a standard three jaw.

mikbul · Oct 29, 2013

Found one Camlock stud out one turn too far, massaged the threads and got it to turn in another turn with a half turn extra before bottoming out. Now all cam marks are between 90 and 180 degrees from spindle mark. Chuck still comes off too easy but spindle taper is scuffed so I know it's touching. Also got .001" run out like before. New spindle sleeve is on the way from Grizzly, no issues, good tech support. Now I'm curious to how the 5" SB chuck fit's, guess I'll have to order one to find out! :typing:

Anyone with D1 Camlock experience I would appreciate their input. According to the manual I should have to tap on the chuck to get it off?

intrepid · Oct 29, 2013

I usually just smack it chuck with a rubber no bounce hammer. Loosens it right up.
danny

michiganbuck · Oct 29, 2013

mikbul said:
That's the problem, the headstock is 4.5MT and the Miller test bar is 3MT. They give you a sleeve with it to bring it down to 3MT that's where I get the run out with the sleeve, which shows up with the Miller test bar.

I also have a small short ground bar to use in the chuck, maybe 5" or so long, to check chuck run out. The chuck issue I think is my fault, it's wasn't cleaned out good enough so it sticks when you re-chuck the short bar.

The spindle inside run out is not measurable. With the 4.5MT sleeve it's a half a thou. If the sleeve was offset exactly a half a thou from centerline then I should get a half a thou at 12" with the Miller test bar. I don't, I get four so the two tapers in the sleeve are not concentric. talked to him and asked if I should buy one of his or send mine for him to sort out. He said he could sort mine out.
I hope this is making sense?
Mike

The test bar has centers so put it between centers with sleeve pushed on tight. With running the centers dead (not turning)turn test bar to run your indicator on the sleeve and see that it runs good or bad.
*By you first sentence sounds like you did this.. If so how much run out did you find in the sleeve?

Checking with the 5 inch test bar be sure to have most of your chuck jaws filled, so you can probably only have about 3 or 3 1/2 sticking out. Getting .001 is very close.

Buck

mikbul · Oct 29, 2013

michiganbuck said:
The test bar has centers so put it between centers with sleeve pushed on tight. With running the centers dead (not turning)turn test bar to run your indicator on the sleeve and see that it runs good or bad.
*By you first sentence sounds like you did this.. If so how much run out did you find in the sleeve?

Checking with the 5 inch test bar be sure to have most of your chuck jaws filled, so you can probably only have about 3 or 3 1/2 sticking out. Getting .001 is very close.

Buck

I re-read your post and get it. I can do that on my other lathe tomorrow and let you know. That has a 3MT and a 2MT I can put the bar with the sleeve on it and spin it by hand with the indicator on the sleeve. Good idea, didn't think of that. :crazy:

mikbul · Oct 29, 2013

intrepid said:
I usually just smack it chuck with a rubber no bounce hammer. Loosens it right up.
danny

That's the thing, chuck falls out without any help

michiganbuck · Oct 29, 2013

I though you were concerned about the head stock taper with checking with the sleeve on the test bar.
And I was thinking the sleeve at most fault not the lathe.
Your checks running .001/ .0015 and even .004 out 12" all are very close in my book.
With a new machine ways are straight so just matching tail to head up close should be very good for the machine for height. A simple point to point should be good.
You could indicate face of test bar between centers to set adjustment at tail stock base but point to point check should get you less than .003.
Looks like it is a nice machine.

Buck

mikbul · Oct 29, 2013

Actually run out inside the sleeve is a half a thousandth, but I don't the spindle taper and the sleeve taper are in line with each other and that's what's giving me the .004" 12" out away from the spindle. When I spin that sleeve tomorrow I'll know. Anyway they are sending me another sleeve, maybe I'll get lucky and It'll be a better one.
Started spindle break in tonight at 45rpm, next is 500, then 900, 1800, and 2300. All ten minutes then ten minutes at 2300 in reverse and done. Getting there!
Thanks for the help Buck.

New SB1001

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