Newbie - Good and Bad points for a SB 13"?

Hello. I have been reading at PM for a few years but this is my first post, so Howdy. I have a 10K underdrive with a nice complement of tooling I 'inherited' from my father that awaits a thorough going thru, or a tough decision to be made as the ways are very worn. I also have a Clausing 8520 mill torn down and in (slow) progress. Now the devil tool junkie on my shoulder is drawing me to look at a 13" South Bend tomorrow. All I can really say about it at the moment is that it is old enough to be a single tumbler gear box. I am hoping some folks will offer some comments on what they view as notable strengths or weaknesses to consider or look for specific to the SB 13.

Looks like nobody else is going to offer up anything for you so I'll give a few cents worth.

On the plus side, the 13 is a pretty stout lathe. It has 4 main belt speeds instead of 3, has wider pullies than its smaller brothers, and has larger diameter pullies as well which mean better power transmission. It's never been as popular as its smaller brothers though and that may be due to the fact that it is a very large hunk of cast iron especially if you have to move it. When new, it was fairly expensive but in the used market, they often go for less than the more popular 10" lathes.

The headstock also has a wider bearing span as well which will translate into better spindle support, particularly for large turning jobs.

Now, having said that I'd probably not be happy having a 13 as my only lathe. It is big and heavy and that shows up in its ability to handle really fine, small diameter work where you might not want to use the power feeds. The carriage is big and heavy and moving it by hand with any delicacy can be a challenge. You already have a 10K so you're pretty well covered for the small delicate jobs.

I should add that I don't have a 13. I've used one a couple of times but the one I used was not in top shape which might have colored my thinking.

If the lathe you're looking at is in good shape in all the usual areas, I don't see why it wouldn't be a good acquisition. The single tumbler gearbox shouldn't be a big issue unless you want to do a lot of threading of strange threads.

Good luck moving it though. Get some experienced help. Don't try to do it by yourself.

In my opinion, The portability of the SB-13 is one of it's strongest assets. The cabinet model is around 1000#. If you possess modest mechanical ability you can dismantle the main assemblies in a couple of hours. The heaviest pieces are manageable w/2 men and an appliance dolly. I had mine in my basement-not a walk-out.
The single tumbler gear box is an asset-not a liability. You can select three feeds instantly. Each feed is twice as coarse as the preceding feed. You have your roughing and finishing feeds directly at hand. I think the single tumbler will cut 99% of all the threads you'll encounter.
Don't worry too much about wear. Try to remember that the ridge on the front vee way changes the cutting height of the tool and to a much smaller degree the cutting diameter. Do the trigonometry and be pleasantly surprised. The saddle is positioned by the prismatic vee ways and will remain centered despite wear. It is true that the wear may cause a slight taper over a considerable distance but it is rare indeed that a tight tolerance must be held over a long, continuous
distance. If there is a relief between the two features there is no problem.
Parts availability can be important, although I must admit that I've never needed to buy a part for any of the 5 lathes I have owned. Practically every part for SB-13s can be found. That isn't true for economy Chinese lathes of even recent manufacture.
As for lightness & balance of controls it's hard to beat a SB-13. Even a worn lathe will do excellent work if the backlash is compensated for.
I have 2 lathes that weigh 4500#. The less powerful lathe has 7.5HP. My SB-13 can equal the work quality of the 2 industrial quality lathes all be it not so quickly or easily. The SB-13 is much more forgiving and fun to use.
The SB-13 is my IDEAL home lathe.

I moved a 13 inch SBL in a Ford F150..it is a heavy lathe but I had a hoist to load and unload it.

Thanks for all the comments, and fell free to add more. I got to give a quick examination today and it is tempting, but don't know the price yet. It is a 1942 machine, 5-foot bed. No visible ridge on the ways, and not enough of one to 'hard-stop' a fingernail. No frosting, at least not in the fron half, maybe further down, but it was sooooo grimy and I did not have time to wipe all down. Has been sitting a while, but oil was still visible in the larger cups. No notable play in spindle, pulled the covers and could not find any broken gears, including looking up into the QC box and examining the back gear. Light on tooling, no steady or follow. Lantern post, some tool holders, 6" 3J, 8" 4J, 11.75 faceplate and 4 or 5 dogs. No taper. 220/440 3phase 1hp, and I happen to have an unused VFD that could handle it. Dirty and paint-ugly as sin, but I was impressed by overall condition.

Moving does not greatly concern me. I used to install printing equipment some years ago and I have a rolling Johnson bar. Another thread here a member showed a cool thing I was unaware of, a hydraulic lift trailer available thru Sunbelt rentals - the entire bed of trailer lowers down onto the ground. This one specs at 1510 obs in the 1042 catalog, add some for the motor, so right about 1600. I just have to wait and see where it goes from here, but feel free to throw more fuel on the fire - grin. I really should be adhering to the mantra of "I Need Another Project Like A Hole In My Heeeeeeeaaaaaad-ooohhhmmm".

I am curious what route most people take for collets for a 13.

obs = lbs ...

packrat2 said:

I moved a 13 inch SBL in a Ford F150..it is a heavy lathe but I had a hoist to load and unload it.

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I moved my 13" x 6ft with my Nissan pick up. I wouldn't recommend it but it was doable. It felt like I had power steering when I don't. LOL

creex said:

I am curious what route most people take for collets for a 13.

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My lathe uses 5C collets. It had a handwheel collet closer but I upgraded to a lever collet closer thanks to Danny Rocci.

I moved mine in my 1993 Ranger.

good photos, I wish I would have got a photo of my 13SBL when it was on the F150....

creex said:

I am curious what route most people take for collets for a 13.

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Others out there know better than I, but there were at least two spindles used on the 13" SB: one with 2 1/4"-8 threads and one with 1 1/2" threads. (Don't remember the thread pitch). The 2 1/4 is the most desirable, since its headstock has replaceable bearing inserts and most SB tooling available fits that spindle nose, which needs an adapter/insert to use 5C collets.

Neil

Okay, let me see if I can express this clearly (late, done been sucked into the sickness, reading too many posts, too late, too many nights)
First - If I am tracking what I am finding right, there are basically three series of spindle/bearing combinations in the 13" -
Early, 1" bore with integral cast iron bearings
Next, in later '40's, same 1" bore, but bronze bearings without the dovetail adjusters
Now here I get fuzzy, somewhere along the way bronze bearings with dovetail adjusters were incorporated, but did they continue with the small bore?
The document I found about the headstock replacement program for owners of cast iron or 1st gen bronze bearing machines does not indicate that
the replacement would be the larger bore.
Then at some point the bigger spindle with bronze bearings and dovetails was standard, and along the way L00 and Camlock spindles were options.

Is that right?

Next, that means that if it is a single-tumbler, '42 vintage machine, but has the double screws on top of the bearing caps (like for dovetail adjustment), but the older small spindle bore, then most likely it has been changed over, possibly under the headstock replacement program. Is that right?

You'll have to do some more reading, but the smaller 1" spindle bore probably does not support 5C collets ... more likely 3C like on the SB9. I could be wrong, but better safe than sorry, if you have your heart set on 5C collet capability.

My 1950 CL-145C has a 1 7/8" thru the spindle and bronze bearings. It has the 2 1/4"-8 threaded spindle nose.

Lucky 13 said:

My 1950 CL-145C has a 1 7/8" thru the spindle and bronze bearings. It has the 2 1/4"-8 threaded spindle nose.

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I think you mean...1 3/8 thru hole (it will pass an 1 3/8 bar thru)
Ted

SBLatheman said:

I think you mean...1 3/8 thru hole (it will pass an 1 3/8 bar thru)
Ted

Click to expand...

Doh!!! Yeah 1 3/8"

Howdy Creex.

I bought a lightly used a South Bend cl145b which is the 13" with a 72" bed length. I have had this machine for about 13 years now. My machine, according the serial number, was produced between 1950 and 1955. She has the double tumbler gearbox. A substantial number of useful tools came with her such as a sb milling attachment,
a steady, a follow, a taper attachment, two collet racks, a four jaw 6" independant skinner chuck, a 10" imported 4 jaw independant, a three jaw scrolling chuck of English origin, and several other goodies. The spindle bore is close to 1 1/2", probably 1 3/8 or 1 7/16". It has a manual draw bar type collet arrangment with full set of 5C type collets of mixed vintage, some SB and others imported. I have learned from other more professional people on this forum that the 5C type collet, as well as other similarly designed collets, are strong, true and parrallel, but only at their nominal size, whereas an ER type collet has interlayered metal and rubber strati which enable it to remain parallel over its range of compression in the collet chuck and therefore the ER collet setup gives you infinitessimal size capabilities compared to the standard discreet sizes of 5C collets. Just remember that if you choose the drawbar arrangment, dont forget to put the spindle threaded nut on first since it is needed to release the collet from the taper it sits in. I am a plumber by trade and I can't over-praise the versatility of this machine. I have gotten out of some pretty ugly situations over the years thanks to this machine.
Overall, despite the fact that I am not a machinist, I can say with unequivocal certainty the SB 13 has a lovely mixture of rugged capability and reliable precision and there are scores of people and internet resources to consult regarding its use and repair. By the way, I have a truck bay at the rear of my shop and I hired a trucker with a flatbed truck to deliver the lathe which was only a mile away. I think I paid him $100 at the time, but still is took three of us with a come-along and a 2 ton chain block slung from the roof trusses to slide it off the the truck and into its final spot. I think it weighs btween 1000 and 1500 lbs.

Had to chime in here -

Got mine home in a Dodge Dakota. Mine's a 6' bed too.

If I didn't own the exact same '93 ranger pickup (well, mine's xtra cab) I wound not have
believed the 13 inch turret lathe in the back there. But that's the biggest little truck
I've ever seen.

My Thoughts On 13"

I also wanted to chime in with my thoughts. Let me begin with the main idea of my thoughts, my opinions: A machine is best when properly matched to the type of work you'll be doing. It's that simple...

That being said, lots of us don't what life will throw at us and we may be asked to do a job or make a part that is beyond the work-envelope of our machine. So we try to find a happy medium.

I've had all three of the popular SB Lathes now. Heavy-10, 9a and now my 13". And (for me) I prefer the 13" because of it's versatility. It's also small enough to do "small work". And if I really want to do even (smaller) work, I can simple install a smaller chuck. My feed rate can go way down, I can use a tiny tool bit, etc, etc...

For bigger jobs, the machine is perfect because of its rigidity. Plus, it has the big spindle bore and its bed is long enough (6') to most jobs I can imagine I'd be doing.

Both the Heavy-10 and 9a were very close - in my opinion. The heavy-10 felt good and the 9a felt very similar, but a little more delicate.

The 13" feels way different than the other two. And to me, is the perfect machine for big jobs, small jobs and everything in between.