newbie & old lathe SB 1947 model 9a cat number 644a serial number 831nar7

robert102653 · Apr 29, 2015

Hello my name is Robert and i just got a 1947 12 speed south bend model 9a. It is filthy and is in some ways very abused, but since i got it for free i feel an obligation to get it back up and running. This is my first post on here to see if i can actually post and get a reply.
I am sure i will be posting daily about this rebuild/repair journey. This machine looked a mess when i got it. The bull gear had been welded to the pulleys, there was no back gear assembly, and when i took apart the headstock it looked like someone had thrown sand in the bearings and ran it for an hour or two. The scratches were pretty deep and i am still not sure whether or not to get a new headstock. Oh and the lead screw was damaged about 8 inches from the tail stock end of the lathe. The good news is it seems that the bed and ways are good. All the other parts are there and seem to be in reasonable condition, but i am looking for a new headstock and lead screw, so any info would be welcome.
It seems like everyone wants one or two hundred dollars for every part they have for sale... yikes! I have included a few pictures. so you can see and advise me on dealing with the various shortcomings . Please don't advise me to buy a new lathe, i am determined to get this one back to at least some semblance of its former glory.

thanks in advance for the help
robert

tommy1010 · Apr 29, 2015

Well what you have is a doable project that should not break the bank. I have a headstock that you can have for the cost of shipping. The only thing is it is from a flat belt macine. I do not believe you can get vee belts on the biggest pulley if the headstock waqs not from a vee belt machine. How does you spindle look? The scratches in your headstock, at lest from what I see, are not that bad. A litle honing and you are back in action. Bull gears are available on e-bay. Looks like the pin failed and some one welded the gear to the pulley to make it work. Cut that gear away from the pulley for a start. Get a bull gear with a good pin and maybe it will all come together quickly. Don't forget to put the belt on before you set the spindle. Do you have the motor and drive pulley? Couple hours and it will be running. nice lathe for $0.00. You should be able to cash in on that one!!!!

rusty old tools · Apr 29, 2015

Looks like you've got some work ahead of you, I'd think that the original v belt pulley will be savable, I'd set the machine up when you get your new headstock running the v belt in the flat belt pulley and machine the weld off, then simply swap out the pulleys. There are 2 places for the pin to seat on the pulley so the other one is likely fine, no need to drill, just a simple facing operation. The v belt drive is nice to have and cost extra to get, not nearly as common as the flat belt drive. Also be prepared to have to shim or machine down your tailstock to match your new headstock, these machines were fitted together so while parts will interchange you may need to do some refitting for everything to line up properly. Your old headstock and spindle may or may not be savable, don't throw anything away, you may want to make a project of it one day. You've got a good lathe to rebuild, they made so many and there's been a ton written about rebuilding them so if you start to get stumped you can easily look up how it comes apart and there are always parts avalible from parted machines showing up on eBay, keeping an eye out and some careful shopping will get you the parts you need at reasonable cost.

Good luck in your rebuild and please keep us posted how it comes along.

panabax · Apr 30, 2015

Your lathe looks a lot like the 9a I just got in a high school auction. Mine was not free, but it was pretty cheap. It looked like total hell when I got it home. However, as it turns out, it was mostly just years of caked on grease and sludge and the dust that settles into that brew over time. I have the entire thing disassembled now and it all cleaned up really really well. The bed is actually in very good condition, but there was a good bit of surface rust here and there. Right now, the entire 4' bed is sitting in an electrolysis bath converting all that rust back to iron. I am excited to see what it looks like in the morning.

Do you have the countershaft assembly for the v belt? The machine I bought is also a 16 speed but I will run it with a purpose built serpentine pulleys and a VFD motor. If my serpentine drive system works out, I will probably not need the v belt setup.

robert102653 · Apr 30, 2015

Hey thanks, Just tell me the amount of the shipping and i will send you the money via pay pal if that is ok? Here are a few more pictures. It looks like the last person simply took out the reversing gear ( back gear assembly?) because it is missing and the motor is not a reversible motor. At least not at first glance. I think he did not care if it ever went in reverse so he just eliminated that ability. He did tell me that he welded the bull gear because there was a chattering in the lathe and he thought it was the bull gear, so he welded it, but it turned out that was not the cause of the chattering.
When you "hone" the headstock, is that with like a cylinder hone and a drill press, or a hand held drill? I got the new bull gear already,and i have parted the old bull gear from the pulley without too much fuss and no damage to the v belt pulley that i can see. I took the apron apart and i will clean it thoroughly. What should i soak it in to loosen up the caked on swarf and hardened grease?
When i run my finger over the head stock shaft it is definitely "Hilly" you can feel smooth but definite ridges. I am sure it could be reground locally but between that and the honing, wouldn't the head stock then be too sloppy? or can i simply tighten down the headstock enough to make up for that
It has quite thick shimms at each end of the headstock so that may be an option. I would guess. Anyway here are some pictures of every thing i have been talking about.

robert102653 · Apr 30, 2015

i am told that this one is a twelve speed not sixteen . nice to know others have the same machine. what sort of solution did you use to clean out the caked on sludge?

robert102653 · Apr 30, 2015

Hey thanks, Just tell me the amount of the shipping and i will send you the money via pay pal if that is ok? Here are a few more pictures. It looks like the last person simply took out the reversing gear ( back gear assembly?) because it is missing and the motor is not a reversible motor. At least not at first glance. I think he did not care if it ever went in reverse so he just eliminated that ability. He did tell me that he welded the bull gear because there was a chattering in the lathe and he thought it was the bull gear, so he welded it, but it turned out that was not the cause of the chattering.
When you "hone" the headstock, is that with like a cylinder hone and a drill press, or a hand held drill? I got the new bull gear already,and i have parted the old bull gear from the pulley without too much fuss and no damage to the v belt pulley that i can see. I took the apron apart and i will clean it thoroughly. What should i soak it in to loosen up the caked on swarf and hardened grease?
When i run my finger over the head stock shaft it is definitely "Hilly" you can feel smooth but definite ridges. I am sure it could be reground locally but between that and the honing, wouldn't the head stock then be too sloppy? or can i simply tighten down the headstock enough to make up for that
It has quite thick shimms at each end of the headstock so that may be an option. I would guess. Anyway here are some pictures of every thing i have been talking about.
p1030624.jpgp1030623.jpgp1030620.jpgp1030618.jpgp1030625.jpg

panabax · Apr 30, 2015

robert102653 said:
what sort of solution did you use to clean out the caked on sludge?

I took the apron apart and washed each part in Purple Power degreaser (from the auto parts store) and used a brass bristled brush to get at and remove the really caked on stuff. It mostly came right off. Here is what my "new" 9a looks like right now:

Baxter

panabax · Apr 30, 2015

robert102653 said:
i am told that this one is a twelve speed not sixteen.QUOTE]

The 644 catalog number is indeed a 12 speed, flat belt, designation. It should have a three pulley flat belt horizontal drive, which make six speeds (three low speeds with the back gear engaged and three higher speeds with the back gear disengaged. Additionally, there should be a two pulley configuration between the motor and the counter-pulley which doubles the speeds from six to twelve. That's what the catalog number suggests.

However, your lathe has a four step v-belt pulley. I have not seen pictures of the countershaft, but I assume it is also the 4 step v belt. The 4 steps on the v-belt pulley plus the back gear makes eight speeds and the two steps on the motor pulley makes sixteen. In other words, the v belt pulleys are not original to your machine if it is, indeed, a 644.

A 544 would be an eight speed with the 4 step v-belt pulleys and a 744 would be a sixteen speed. What does your countershaft look like?

comstockfriend · Apr 30, 2015

+1 Panabax: 16 speeds = 4 (V belt steps) x 2 (backgear) x 2 (2 step motor pulley). I use a segmented V-belt, so you can assemble the headstock THEN put the belt on. When I get around to it, I'll replace the single phase motor with three phase and VFD and minimize belt changes.

Could be someone swapped out for the 4 step V-belt, or it could be that the gearbox with nameplate were from a different lathe. Anyway, looks like your lathe has gone some miles, not all of them happy...

John

robert102653 · May 2, 2015

you are correct but the next miles will be the best it ever had itis nearly all apart andill be soaking it in purple power in short order.

robert102653 · May 2, 2015

headstock

tommy1010 said:
Well what you have is a doable project that should not break the bank. I have a headstock that you can have for the cost of shipping. The only thing is it is from a flat belt macine. I do not believe you can get vee belts on the biggest pulley if the headstock waqs not from a vee belt machine. How does you spindle look? The scratches in your headstock, at lest from what I see, are not that bad. A litle honing and you are back in action. Bull gears are available on e-bay. Looks like the pin failed and some one welded the gear to the pulley to make it work. Cut that gear away from the pulley for a start. Get a bull gear with a good pin and maybe it will all come together quickly. Don't forget to put the belt on before you set the spindle. Do you have the motor and drive pulley? Couple hours and it will be running. nice lathe for $0.00. You should be able to cash in on that one!!!!

love to get that head stock from you please contact me at [email protected] i will send you the money via pay pal

rob

tommy1010 · May 6, 2015

sent you a PM. Check your inbox

jkopel · May 6, 2015

I found one of those v-belt spindle pulleys for my old lathe, and eventually just gave up looking for the matching countershaft pulley and used the flat belt.
The v-belt counter shaft pulleys usually go for about $200 on ebay! :nutter:

With a decent set of flat belt pulleys, a cheap serpentine belt, and a VFD I never missed it.
The flat belts stuff can be had MUCH cheaper if you can be patient.

robert102653 · May 7, 2015

i do not need the pulleys just the back gear.

rob

jkopel · May 9, 2015

If you are unable to get a good back gear I have one I would send you for cheap. It is missing a bunch of teeth on the small end but the big end is good. You can turn off the small end and press on a replacement gear. PM user Fingegrain used to make replacements but I don't know if he still does.

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robert102653 · May 9, 2015

lol define cheap lol

robert102653 · May 10, 2015

ok one more tiny problem everything has been stripped except for the actual bed of the lath and that will be done shortly. the problem is what do i do with the used ZEP i have looked on the net and on the zep website and they all say dispose of according to local and state regulations? but no one ever tell you what the hell those might be and wading through all the regs in the state to find the one regarding ZEP well that could take years... any ideas that are environmentally safe?

panabax · May 10, 2015

I have never worked with ZEP however, if you are concerned about disposing of it in a liquid state you can generally always allow something like that to dry and then just throw away the solids. I think most paint strippers are ammonia based which makes me think they should be able to go wherever my pee goes. Just sayin'.

robert102653 · May 12, 2015

Ok now for some good news one more part to soak in the zep solution. the bed. and i started painting last night just one part but it looks pretty good.

i will make a plywood trough for the bed and line it with plastic sheeting to make it leak proof then set the bed in and fill it with zep solution

24 hours later brush and rinse and i will be painting everything next week i hope. still looking for two parts, the lead screw and back gear. so if you know anyone that has a lead screw for a model 9A with a four foot bed or a back gear for the same let me know . by the way i have the eccentric shaft for the back gear already so i don't need the whole assembly. thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions.

rob

newbie & old lathe SB 1947 model 9a cat number 644a serial number 831nar7

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