Newly acquired 13x30 SB Lathe

Hello! This is my first post to the Practical Machinist South Bend forum and I think I'll be around here for quite a while.

Today I agreed to purchase a 13x30 SB lathe, serial number 13478TKX. The seller reports that the machine has lived at a local VoTech school since new and has been very well maintained. The whole thing is well oiled and very clean. The ways look new, without a scratch or ding. I'm getting it for $2100, so here's hoping that I did well. I'm more interested in getting something that's not a "project" in itself more than getting a steal of a deal.

My old machine is a Grizzly 9x20 lathe, which I consider to be a pretend machine. This 9x20 machine has served me well over the years, but I keep coming up against issues with it being too small.

My first task will be getting this machine home, so that leads to a few questions for you experts:
- I'm expecting this to weigh in at about a ton. How close am I?
- I don't have much experience moving heavy machines, so I'm a bit naive here. Is it reasonable to disassemble it into some smaller pieces that are more manageable, or is it more reasonable to pay somebody to move it for me? I know that the head must remain on the bed so I don't lose alignment, but how difficult is it to separate other heavy subassemblies?

Take a look:
Dan

Wow. That is super clean. Looks really well cared for. Not sure it will help you, but might be worth having a look at my thread called "The Dreaded B Word" where some great advice was given regarding moving and safety. What I personally came to realize as a result was the mistake (for me at least) of wanting to keep the machine in larger sub-assemblies. In my case, which is moving the machine to my basement, it's wiser to dismantle into more manageable pieces instead of less, and do some deeper cleaning of parts while I have them torn down and outside. Also - When I bought my machine (a 13" x 5'), I was naive about transporting it. I personally wouldn't have been able to do it the way I had initially planned. I used a pro, and it was money well spent. BTW Welcome to the forum.

Nice buy. Maybe 1/2 ton. I have moved my 13 twice. Bolt some 4x4 3 or 4 feet wide
to the legs then bolt swivel casters to the 4bys and roll it wheverer. I pulled mine on and off my trailer with the help of a chainfall and floor jack. Of course if a small space or stairs then all bets off. Good luck.

Nice looking lathe there. My 13" model CL145D is the biggest 13" and it weighed 1450lbs. I used an engine hoist to move it on and off my trailer and then bolted on a piece of steel under the mounting holes with some casters on it to move it to the the back of my shop.

Your lathe looks like a nice machine. I have a 13" x 5'. The previous posts are all good advice. Whether to disassemble or move in one piece depends on where you are moving it. I moved mine on a rented trailer in one piece. I securing it to 4" x 4" timbers with all thread and used 2" x 4" "outriggers" lagged to the timbers cut to fit the width of the trailer. Your biggest risk (to yourself and the machine) is that it is extremely top-heavy. Once I had the timbers and outriggers in place I was able to move it with pipe rollers, crow bars and a helper.

If you do disassemble don't worry about removing the headstock if that helps your plan. The headstock is located by the vee ways and a dowel pin. You will have to cut your belt- no loss if you are doing a rebuild, but from your pictures it looks like that machine is ready to run.

With the 13" components the pedestal and bed are close to the limit as to what can be lifted without mechanical help.

Good Luck

Thanks guys for all of the input and especially for the thread on the dreaded B word. Yes, this machine will go into the dreaded B. But I have a walkout basement with two different access points with either a concrete ramp or a single step up from the back yard.

Now I'm looking for some disassembly info so I can be better prepared for what I'm up against when taking it apart. I have one of the two ton HF engine cranes, so that will be what I use for lifting the bed.

It looks like the headstock sits into the ways, so when reassembling it is self-aligning. Correct? Are there any alignment concerns with disassembly?

Taking it apart will be the best way of getting familarized with the machine and also checking for any issues and cleaning out any chips/debris.

I watched one of the SB 13 rebuild videos last night and saw a reference to a half-nut oiling mod. It looks like the oiling channels for the half-nut don't work properly? Any comments on that would be helpful.

I went pro for the move, it was going in the garage and my driveway is a bitch. I lost a 150 pound joiner down the driveway once, and wasn't looking forward to fetching the SB or the BP out of the street!

Sling between the ways or around the bed UNDER the lead screw (i.e., don't pinch the lead screw!)

Enjoy your new lathe! (Looks like the bed clamp for the taper attachment is missing, check for that when you pick it up.)

For someone who is not super familiar with moving lathes I think the safest way, for the machine, is to take it apart. I have the same machine. Take the tail stock off, remove the end support for the lead screw, take the carriage off (engine hoist), Take the gearbox/lead screw assy off, Take the belt apart, I removed the bed/head stock assy from the motor housing and set the bed/head stock assy on a pallet jack. You can take the head stock off the bead too if you want.

What? I'd have to cut the flat belt? It looks new! That makes me lean toward building a transport pallet and moving it in one piece. The pros make it look so easy - I guess it is easy when you have the right equipment!

The way I see it, moving it in pieces puts all the burden on my body since everything will pretty much be moved by hand. If it's in one piece, then the only way to get it on the trailer is by machine - engine hoist to lift it enough to slip the pallet underneath, and a winch or come-along to pull it up the landscaping trailer ramp.

It's not all that different from when I moved my son-in-law's chicken coop. In that case, I built a pallet with castors to slip under the coop, then winched it up with the ATV. With this lathe, castors would wreck the trailer ramp so its probably best to roll it up over black pipes on plywood. The stabilizing out-riggers are a great idea.

I'll have to take some photos. Saturday is the big day.

BTW: I also noticed the missing taper bed clamp. Maybe I can get the seller to take off some $$ since it will cost me something to replace, but then we already agreed on a price so I'll probably have to eat it, or make one.

South Bend's like that one aren't as top heavy as some lathes, like old LeBlond's, because of the motor being mounted lower in the leg, but they are still top heavy and will get away from you in a heartbeat. Any little slip while loading or missed detail in rigging will topple that thing over in a hurry. Best case scenario you mess your lathe up, worse case you mess yourself up too.

My last SB move was a little 9A with UMD (under drive in the sheet metal cabinet); very top heavy! While maneuvering the thing around on the truck lift gate (which never got horizontal) to some boards on gravel, she got away from us and went down. Fortunately she was leaning backwards and so landed on her butt instead of doing a face plant. No harm, no foul, but scared the s**t out of us for a minute! A face plant generally gets the gear box tumblers, apron and cross slide handles, etc.

John

1450 stated above sounds about right, shipping weight was 1600. There is a web between the ways about 6" in front of the chuck. If you slide the saddle/apron ALL the way to the right and put the tailstock in the chip tray on that end, she'll balance about perfectly if you pick it up by that web.*
If you take it apart: The headstock plus bed is about a 6 hefty guys carry. DAHIKT.
It is a pain to get the pedestals back under it and bolted in while the bed is supported by 4-5 hefty guys. DAHIKT. An engine hoist would have been the thing to have.

*lathe in question did not have taper attach. That will work in your favor.

Sounds like you have decided to move it in one piece, here are a couple more comments that might help you out.

Rudd's previous post about the lifting point is great- if he is talking about a 30" bed you are all set- I would advise a nylon sling around the web with wood blocks on the bottom of the bed to protect the sling from sharp edges. This will let you lift with the engine hoist to get a good timber pallet or skid bolted to the lathe. Wider is better, remember my previous post about outriggers. What you want to avoid when moving on any incline or uneven surface is the type of dolly shown in your first pic. For the move of my 13" I dragged it with a tractor on the inclines- trailer ramp and garage apron - no rollers until on flat concrete- you don't want it to get away from you. Planks or plywood on your trailer to protect it. Double check the apron and tailstock are locked down before moving.

Thanks for the advise on the lifting points. Very very valuable info. The dolly that the lathe is sitting on now in the sellers garage is totally ridiculous. Good reminder to make sure that the apron is locked down.

I called one rigger yesterday and he basically said that they don't work with "small jobs" like this and especially when it involves residential locations.

The move will be the one-piece approach.

Last night I built a pallet that's about 4x6' out of oak and ash 4x4s that I milled last summer. The trailer is 6 feet wide, so keeping a foot of wiggle room on each side of the pallet is helpful. There are 4 4x4's with 2" white pine planks tying them together. The plan is to bolt a 3500 lb electric winch to the pallet and have it winch itself up onto the trailer ramp - there's no good place on the trailer to bolt the winch to, so it has to go on the pallet. A couple new D-rings will be welded to the trailer for a solid place to pull on. I'll use the engine hoist to pick it up and then slip the pallet underneath and roll it on 1" black pipes - if the winch can pull it without the rollers, then I'll just do that - it should be able to. (I had to go raid all of my pipe clamps to get these "rollers"). I had to make sure that the 4x4 rails were spaced right so they didn't collide with the feet of the engine hoist, but I'll have to put the pallet on bricks because the hoist legs are higher than 4". Then a floor jack will help to lift the pallet with the machine on it and get the bricks out (LOL). Then the floor jack has to be moved to support the end of the trailer as the machine is winched on, along with some supports (maybe the bricks?) under the ramp. I'm glad that we won't have to lift the machine more than 6-8" off the ground. Heavy loads up high are very frightening.

Such adventure. I have to remember to take lots of photos.

EDIT: One of the guys here at work suggested spraying the trailer ramp with lightly soapy water and not bother with the pipes. I like that!

Thanks to you guys, this SB13 beauty is now sitting in the driveway on the trailer, safe and sound. The engine crane was used to lift it off the silly movers dolly and then with the pallet/sled up on bricks, we pushed it into position. Two loops of heavy webbing were slipped under bed as close to the headstock as possible. This was necessary to keep the lathe base from interfering with the crane legs. The tailstock end was light enough to easily lift it over the pallet as it was pushed into place.

It was bolted down and then winched up the first part of the ramp after pouring soapy water on the plywood as lubricant.

That's when I realized that I forgot to put the blocks under the ramp and add jacks under the back of the trailer. It would be bad if the weight popped the hitch off the tow vehicle.

I gave the seller the honors to run the winch for the final stretch to pull it into position.


Then it was wrapped up with a moving blanket, covered with a tarp and wrapped up with parachute cord to keep all the road grit off. I think I have to add the next two picks in another post....

What an adventure. This is the heaviest machine I have ever moved and it went without a hitch. Anything less than a 3500 lb winch would not have been able to pull this machine up the ramp.

The seller bought it from the school where he teaches for $750 in a silent auction. Lucky guy, but he failed because he didn't keep it and put it to work!!!!!

Wrapped in a moving blanket....


Finally at home, wrapped with a tarp like a cocoon.