potential southbend 16 rebuild?

Greetings all,
I am new to this forum and hope your knowledge will help me in my next lathe project. I recently aquired a somewhat damaged southbend 16 lathe that fell from the bed of a truck. It sustained serious damage to the base and casing of the gearbox. It has no motor, has a broken wheel on the carriage, and has mild surface rust on most of the unprotected parts(especially the undercarriage drive pulley). The rest of the machine still looks to be in fair shape at first inspection. The gears and pulleys seem to spin freely and do not have excessive wear. The ways are OK (.003>) with my 18" straightedge. And the carriage moves smoothly with no slop when turned with a pair of visegrips.
I am interested in trying to repair this machine but do not want to waste my time and money on something that will end up costing more than it is worth. The base is my first concern. Iv'e looked at many pictures of southbend 16 lathes and have only seen one remotely like my base. It had been welded down to the floor of a submarine and all the feet were cut off -none too evenly! I think it is cast steel(not iron) judging by a spark test so I think I will try to weld it. It also loks like it was modified on the tailstock end which is made of 1/4" anlge iron and a 3/8" plate. Since I have no motor and the lags are all shortened I do not know how high I should make the base. Should I just scrap the old base and make a new one? (Really not on my want to do list since I may find hidden damage later.)
Also, this lathe sat for several years with the two 5/8" standoffs that support the tailstock end of the bed removed- thus the carriage and tailstock weight were added to that end and I don't know if that could have been enough to warp the bed.
Any rebuild advice or sources for "16" parts (not much on Ebay) would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bigpagoda

Pics, we love pics. Next would be serial to get an idea when it was manufactured. Not sure how attached you are to this machine, or what your budget may be like. Being in a sub could have interesting history. I would keep your eyes open for a second machine. Then between the two you make one, and have extra parts. The base is pretty heavy, besides its physical size, so unless you find one local to you, the freight will be up. Where for maybe between $800-$1500 you could find something complete. For about $25 you can run the serial number through the south bend website and get a copy of the original serial card. It'll tell you the customer, date shipped and so on. Might impact your direction.

Definitely need to post some pics for us to evaluate. There are several of us on here who have gone through 16" machines recently. We probably can cobble together any spare parts you need. For example, I'm sitting on a complete, ready to use 16" underdrive base/leg assembly that came from a parts machine. I've been toying with converting the leftovers of that machine into a stout wood lathe, but would prefer to see it go to restoring another vintage SBL. We can talk pricing when the time is right if you're interested in swapping it in.

What else do you know of that needs replacing so far? Let's get the old girl making chips!

Tom

Edit: I have an extra single tumbler gearbox casting as well if yours is damaged beyond repair.

Thank you for the reply. I will look up the serial numbers this weekend. I did not post pictures because it is currently disassembled in the hallway of my basement- and my lovely wife would really like me to put it back together where it belongs. I will try to get some that are worth posting.
I did find some good news when I took off the underdrive and could turn the base over. It is not cast steel it is 3/8 plate with really beefy welds that are well disguised under many coats of paint. So- I think I will cut off the angle iron from the tailstock end and refab that end with more 3/8" plate Then cut all four of the legs up above the highest damaged point and reinforce them with plate as well. I still do not know how tall I should make it though. Should I wait until I have a motor to make sure I have enough clearance? Also, I am wondering if it is a good idea to install large leveling feet on the bottom of the legs? (I have a very large set of them available if I want them) Unless you guys convince me to just get a replacement base.
I believe this lathe was originally equipped with a 1 1/2 or 2 HP motor. I don't want to go crazy but that seems a little weak for that much mass- any recomendations? I am a little interested in putting one with a vfd on it but I only have 220 and no phase inverter- is it really worth it? Just wondering what other people are using.
I put on a replacement wheel for the carriage but there are some other damaged knobs. And yes, I am going to have to figure out what to do about the gearbox.
Thank you for your input.
Bigpagoda

I have a 2hp motor on mine, which I believe was a heavier option at the time. I've old catalog listings off of wswells' south bend lathe workshop that list 1 1/2hp as kind of the standard rating.
http://www.wswells.com/data/catalog/1940_Catalogue_No16T/1940_Catalogue_No16T.pdf

http://www.wswells.com/

Not entirely sure what makes the hp rating, but my 2hp is pretty large. I've seen smaller motors with higher ratings. Not sure if it is accurate, but in my mind I think the difference between Chevy or Ford's small and big blocks. You may have a big block at lets say 350hp natural. You might make a small block turn the same hp, but its not really going to pull a load the same going up hill.

With the lathe you also have pulley ratios that would cut the needed hp down, motor to drum, then drum to spindle, so you are never pulling 1:1 with motor shaft to spindle. Now if you want to cut deep at high speed, a little extra hp wont hurt for sure, I just can't personally call it a necessity.

I have single phase 240v at my shop. I went with a rotary phase converter to give me 3 phase because... well I'm not entirely sure why, other than I wanted to play with it. I do have other machines that I can just hook up now, verse putting single phase motors in. And it gives me the option to play with other motors and machines. But for 1 motor, 1 machine I think I might just stick a quality single phase motor in and be done.

And just an fyi, if you do get a serial card it'll tell you what the original volt and hp rating was.

texasgunsmith said:

Not entirely sure what makes the hp rating, but my 2hp is pretty large. I've seen smaller motors with higher ratings. Not sure if it is accurate, but in my mind I think the difference between Chevy or Ford's small and big blocks. You may have a big block at lets say 350hp natural. You might make a small block turn the same hp, but its not really going to pull a load the same going up hill.

Click to expand...

Well, motors are not rated by physical size. Newer TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) motors are different than the older motors. But the amount of HP is based on a lot of factors, none of which is physical, AFAIK.

I think South Bend knew what they were doing when putting the motors on the machine. The machine is designed for a specific HP, period. A lathe gets a lot of torque, so I would be careful on how large of an HP motor you put on it. Can probably take a tad larger, but I wouldn't get carried away.

texasgunsmith said:

But for 1 motor, 1 machine I think I might just stick a quality single phase motor in and be done.

Click to expand...

I'd get a single phase 120v to three phase 240v VFD and use a 3 phase 2HP motor. (or maybe a 3HP)

If South Bend used a 2HP, it's probably suitable for the machine they designed. There is an argument for using a larger HP motor with a VFD, in that as you lower the frequency you loose torque, so if you plan to use the VFD for bottom end adjust ability. you can gain some.

OTOH, plenty of fine work has been done on stock SB 16s, so I'm sure that plenty more could be done on one in a stock configuration.