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A Serpentine Belt Conversion Alternative (w/ Clipper Lacing)...

morsetaper2

Diamond
Joined
Jul 2, 2002
Location
Gaithersburg, MD USA
I did a serpentine conversion on my lathe a couple years back in 2008 when they were first being disscussed here. The conversion was outstanding, you can read about it HERE. I was tired of leather and fabric belts that would slip and make turning projects take forever.

You all have seen leather belts. I tried two different leather belts many years ago. One was the same as the other. Tried a fabric belt, maybe a little better, maybe the same. Pictures of fabric belt:

fabric_1.jpg


fabric_2.jpg


My first serpentine conversion lasted 1.5 yr or so but the glue joint eventually degraded and I think I cut into the cord of the belt and it eventually failed. Don't have any pics of it. So I tried another serpentine belt, a Goodyear Gatorback belt, thinking the relief on the pulley side might make it grab better. Not much difference. The Gatorback belt was actually thicker than the "normal' serpentine belt. But the Gatorback worked well, it transmitted lots of power, but about 2 yrs later it began to fail at the joint. Honestly, I think at times I just drove it too hard. But I think if I had V-notched where the two ends meet, it would have lasted longer. Going around the pulley radius I think each end "pushed" the joint apart and over time it failed. A little clearance and V-notch would have helped I'm certain. I used plenty of glue and it seemed to be holding up well.

sepentine_glued_1.jpg


sepentine_glued_2.jpg


sepentine_glued_3.jpg



So I took my leather, fabric, and serpentine belt up to Baltimore Belting last Monday. He showed me what he usually specs for South Bend Lathes but I wasn't very keen on it. A rubber fabric, but not as grippy as a serpentine rubber. So I asked what he had that he could put clipper laces on similar to the serpentine belt matl. And he showed me this stuff. its a fabric-rubber composite belt w/ 3/32 layers of black grippy rubber on each side

bb_rubber_3.jpg


He said its specified for pulley diams no smaller than 4". Recalling from memory, I said none of my pulleys were smaller than about 5 inches. Well I got home and the smallest pulley was 2.8" or so. Rats. Oh well. He had to order the material and it came a week later to my door. Total cost of belt was $23 or so. Here are some pics.

bb_rubber_1.jpg

bb_rubber_2.jpg

bb_rubber_4.jpg


It seems to work just fine on the small pulley and it grips & transmits power on par w/ the serpentine belts. I'm going to take it a little easier on this one, and maybe the belt will last more than a year or two. The clipper lacing has a little piece welding to join all the individual laces together. I guess that distrubutes the load better. Make sure to not run that "hump" joint against the pulley.

Just did a quickie test. Turned .125 off the OD of a pc of 2.5" diam 1018 steel in one pass in back gear at .021 in/rev feed-rate and it did fine. So I'm happy. Not saying its the ultimate, but w/ clipper laces I like this better than the serpentine belt.

Belt material is: 1-1/4 x 2 ply 220, 3/32 x 3/32 covers (I measured it at .170 OA thickness)

Baltimore Belting in Baltimore, MD
Baltimore Belting Company Inc.
 
MT2,
I have a later model 10L on factory cabinet. The belt on mine is a material I don't know what it is. It appears to be more like a ribbon and looks like it is heat bonded together. It is black and very thin. Looks like maybe a nylon mixed with something. When I first got the lathe home several years ago, I thought there was no way it would last long or be as good as the serpentine belt I had put on my last 10L which I was very happy with the performance. However, I must say, I am very impressed with this belts performance. It shows no sign of wear including stretching, and does not slip easy at all. I have always wondered if it may be a factory belt. But if it is not, I sure would be interested to know what it is. The only draw back is it has been keeping me from doing a complete headstock tear down because once I cut if off, its done.
danny
 
Morsetaper2:
The belt that you have is probably the most desirable available today. It appears to have the traction necessary to do the job. I wouldn't worry about the steel belt lacing coming loose, they have proved durable over the years. That small piece of steel wire connecting the lacing should be removed, as it is not necessary for the operation of the belt. It is only necessary to keep the metal links together when they are in the original package, and to keep them in alignment when being inserted in the lacing clamp. They should have removed them before they shipped the belt to you.

Lord Byron
 
MT2,
I have a later model 10L on factory cabinet. The belt on mine is a material I don't know what it is. It appears to be more like a ribbon and looks like it is heat bonded together. It is black and very thin. Looks like maybe a nylon mixed with something. When I first got the lathe home several years ago, I thought there was no way it would last long or be as good as the serpentine belt I had put on my last 10L which I was very happy with the performance. However, I must say, I am very impressed with this belts performance. It shows no sign of wear including stretching, and does not slip easy at all. I have always wondered if it may be a factory belt. But if it is not, I sure would be interested to know what it is. The only draw back is it has been keeping me from doing a complete headstock tear down because once I cut if off, its done.
danny

The belt you have was available in the 80's from South Bend Lathe. It came cut to length with the ends skived to be glued with a special glue included. You also needed a glueing clamp to complete the glueing operation. The clamp costed over $100. As you can guess, this belt is no longer available after the plant shut down. This belt is very durable, and will last many years. When and if it wears out or breaks, or if you have to cut it apart to remove your spindle, you will have to be satisfied with the belt that Morsetaper2 has.

Lord Byron
 
The belt you have was available in the 80's from South Bend Lathe. It came cut to length with the ends skived to be glued with a special glue included. You also needed a glueing clamp to complete the glueing operation. The clamp costed over $100. As you can guess, this belt is no longer available after the plant shut down. This belt is very durable, and will last many years. When and if it wears out or breaks, or if you have to cut it apart to remove your spindle, you will have to be satisfied with the belt that Morsetaper2 has.

Lord Byron

Thanks for the information Lord Byron. That is what I suspected and was afraid of. As I said before, I am really impressed with it because it has very similar performance to the serpentine belt I used on my other 10L. I will just pray it will last a long time.
danny
 
I have one just like the OP,but mines 2" wwide on a 16"er,I keep saying I should get a spare,I abuse this one now for 4 or 5 years.I got mine from a hay baler store,it was under thirty bucks shipped
Gw
 
On my old Sheldon lathe the PO had removed the spindle and put a serpentine belt on it without cutting and gluing. It worked amazingly well, but the spindle seemed easier to remove on that Sheldon than my 10L. Anyone actually gone to the trouble to remove the spindle and put an endless serpentine belt on?
 
"Anyone actually gone to the trouble to remove the spindle and put an endless serpentine belt on? "

Can't be done on the 10L or any underdrive models. Gary P. Hansen
 
Southbend

The belt you have was available in the 80's from South Bend Lathe. It came cut to length with the ends skived to be glued with a special glue included. You also needed a glueing clamp to complete the glueing operation. The clamp costed over $100. As you can guess, this belt is no longer available after the plant shut down. This belt is very durable, and will last many years. When and if it wears out or breaks, or if you have to cut it apart to remove your spindle, you will have to be satisfied with the belt that Morsetaper2 has.

Lord Byron

I believe Grizzley bought the "rights" to Southbend and now sells them. There's an outside chance they may have that belt.
 
Anyone actually gone to the trouble to remove the spindle and put an endless serpentine belt on?

I did it to my 9A. I'm glad I did, too, because it was a good excuse to replace felts, set bearing clearances, and install a needle bearing thrust washer. It was also a good time to remove the gray spray paint from the ID of the bearing bores. Yup, spray paint. No wonder why the spindle locked up when the bolts were tightened!
 
I just can't stand the clack of the metal lacing going over the pulleys. I have, however, used soft lacing done by hand with good success. I've even soft laced small high speed rubber belts for my Dumore grinder and had those hold up OK; only because I was desperate, but I was still amazed at how well they worked. Heavy button or sail thread and bee's wax. You'd want something heavier still for the lathe. Old machinist books show how to do it.
 
there is also gator lacing,its a one piece lace,designed to be hammered closed.the clipper lacing tool is necessary on clipper lacing.
i was fortunate enough to have my spindle lock up,do when i dismantled it i put in a new continous dayco serpentine belt.

i bought a pair of belts for my dumore toolpost grinder from the vacum cleaner belt rack at the hardware store.5.00 for two,seems to pull really well.
 
My Lathe came into my posession with some unknown rubberized canvas looking belt. For something that looked like it was on it's last legs in 2006, it's survived til now, so I guess I can't complain.

Last year or so, I bought a serpentine belt with the intent of swapping it in, only to find I'd cut it too short and it tore the first time I placed tention on it. ($35 blown.)

A month or so ago, I bought another belt and some automotive contact adhesive. Made a good 4" section of relief (kerf?), and followed instructions here to glue it 1/2" at a time to keep it flexible.

Well that didn't go so well. ;) I dunno if I didn't grind enough relief off it, or if the glue is too stiff or what, but the mass of the glued section is enough to, fairly quickly, have the tension handle jump, releasing the tension off the belt. (Scares the croup outta ya, and would probably give your knee a good thump if it were in the wrong place at the wrong time.)

If I call up Baltimore Belting and say I've got an underdrive 10L, will they know what length of belt to send? I'm tired of getting this wrong!
 
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Now that I've measured the belt in position, I'll be taking my head back apart to put in a conitinuous serpentine in. I'll be putting a 60 hole index ring on the bull gear and do the needle bearing update as well. It'll only take a couple of hours....it's all nice and clean now!

Dave
 








 
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