South Bend 16 Motor Engagement

Hello All,

I've been dealing with an issue on my (approximately 1961) South Bend 16" Lathe, and am wondering if anyone has any experience here they'd be willing to share.

When I bought this lathe, the previous owner had the belt tension so tight that he had to stand on the engagement lever to force it into place. I didn't think this was correct, so I've adjusted the screw to release some of the load required to engage. I'm happier with it now, but in my study of the components (engagement lever, eccentric, knuckle, connecting sleeve, etc.) I've noticed that there must have been a tension spring attached to the connecting sleeve with the exposed pin. There are wear marks where the spring should be, and a worn retaining washer, but no spring. I don't see the corresponding attachment for the other end of the spring either. I'm guessing that the spring failed and the attachment bolt was removed. Does anyone have any pics of these parts, or any info on the design of the spring? Spring rate, length, diameter, load at length...anything? Perhaps a better question is, do I need to replace the spring since it still works without it?

By the way, my lathe doesn't have "Stop Screw E" that KYLIT says should limit the load on the belt by stopping the cradle before it's entire weight is placed on the belt. When I engage the motor, the entire weight of the motor is on the belt and there is no adjustable stop that I can find. There are the 2 adjustable screws on the right (edit: mistakenly stated "left side") of the pedestal that limit the travel of the engagement handle, but that doesn't appear to limit the load applied to the belt. Can anyone explain how to properly adjust this setup?

Thank you!

My 1943 16" machine works fine without the spring. I don't find it overly taxing to lift the motor drive assembly for belt changes. That said, the modern TEFC 3hp Leeson that replaced the original 2hp factory motor is probably only about half the weight. That may play into your decision to replace the lift assist spring or not.

Here is a link to the Southbend CE3458 parts manual with exploded views and part numbers for 10", 13", 14 1/2", 16" and 16/24" lathes. http://neme-s.org/Shaper Books/South Bend/CE3458 Parts Manual.pdf

This manual shows the under drive cabinet for your lathe.

Vlad

A couple crappy pics

I took a few cell phone pictures of one of my 16's (this one a 1956 build date). I will try to get a some better pictures tomorrow with my other camera. This gives you a basic idea of the spring. I would have to dig it out of the lathe to measure, but it is a fairly beefy spring.



A few thoughts.. Years ago when I first got a 16 (1946 build), the lever on that lathe was a bit hard to engage. Some cleaning and a few drops of oil made a BIG improvement. Also, it had the original belt. The belt was leather, and had stretched a good bit. The adjustment had been run up to at least 3/4 of its travel. When I ordered a replacement synthetic belt I was advised by the belt maker to re-adjust to about half or less, then measure. I set it at about 1/4 travel, measured and bought that length belt. Fantastic improvement. Just a minor tweak for the right tension and it has stayed at that adjustment point for years. The synthetic belt runs well with less tension than the old leather belt.

Just curious, do you have an endless belt or is it spliced?

Best of luck to you.

Marc

I dont believe either of my 16's has a spring. My newest belt is leather and much thicker than the previous. I'd have to look at the adjustments again to see what does what, but I'm thinking I dont have an adjustment to limit how much weight is on it. There is a setting for the up (disengaged) position. Some alignment type screws as well, but I cant recall a tension limit.

When you drop the handle down you are letting the weight of drum and motor pull belt down, they are heavy,But not obscenely heavy on belt imo, no need to actually lock into down, or engaged position. Just dropping it down nice should be fine.

You do need to set some of the set screws to lock into the up position (disengaged) however. Again drum and motor are heavy, so setting the handle to stop/lock at about 1 oclock is good. This way you dont get a nasty surprise if hands are in around belt and motor drops. Maybe set it at between 1 and 2 oclock. test it several times.

Vladymere gr said:

Here is a link to the Southbend CE3458 parts manual with exploded views and part numbers for 10", 13", 14 1/2", 16" and 16/24" lathes. http://neme-s.org/Shaper Books/South Bend/CE3458 Parts Manual.pdf

This manual shows the under drive cabinet for your lathe.

Vlad

Click to expand...

Thank you, I've seen that publication and that's how I know that the wear marks must have been from a spring. I'm glad that folks have been so generous with their manuals!!!

v8packard said:

I took a few cell phone pictures of one of my 16's (this one a 1956 build date). I will try to get a some better pictures tomorrow with my other camera. This gives you a basic idea of the spring. I would have to dig it out of the lathe to measure, but it is a fairly beefy spring.

A few thoughts.. Years ago when I first got a 16 (1946 build), the lever on that lathe was a bit hard to engage. Some cleaning and a few drops of oil made a BIG improvement. Also, it had the original belt. The belt was leather, and had stretched a good bit. The adjustment had been run up to at least 3/4 of its travel. When I ordered a replacement synthetic belt I was advised by the belt maker to re-adjust to about half or less, then measure. I set it at about 1/4 travel, measured and bought that length belt. Fantastic improvement. Just a minor tweak for the right tension and it has stayed at that adjustment point for years. The synthetic belt runs well with less tension than the old leather belt.

Just curious, do you have an endless belt or is it spliced?

Best of luck to you.

Marc

Click to expand...

Thank you for the pics, it's most helpful. I'll keep my eyes open for a similar spring and if I find one, I'll make the top mounting piece.

My lathe has the 3 speed cones, and the leather belt is the full width of a step. It's got a seam that is perpendicular to the edge and appears to be wrapped over itself and glued...but I'm not entirely sure. (I haven't examined the seam really well. It works, so I haven't focused on it yet!) It has stretched a little bit since I got it though, probably because I've forgotten to release the tension a time or two and not noticed it until the next day.

Without a removable seam in that belt, examining cleaning & adjusting the spindle sleeve bearings was quite a bear!

texasgunsmith said:

I dont believe either of my 16's has a spring. My newest belt is leather and much thicker than the previous. I'd have to look at the adjustments again to see what does what, but I'm thinking I dont have an adjustment to limit how much weight is on it. There is a setting for the up (disengaged) position. Some alignment type screws as well, but I cant recall a tension limit.

When you drop the handle down you are letting the weight of drum and motor pull belt down, they are heavy,But not obscenely heavy on belt imo, no need to actually lock into down, or engaged position. Just dropping it down nice should be fine.

You do need to set some of the set screws to lock into the up position (disengaged) however. Again drum and motor are heavy, so setting the handle to stop/lock at about 1 oclock is good. This way you dont get a nasty surprise if hands are in around belt and motor drops. Maybe set it at between 1 and 2 oclock. test it several times.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the info on the set screws!

texasgunsmith said:

You do need to set some of the set screws to lock into the up position (disengaged) however. Again drum and motor are heavy, so setting the handle to stop/lock at about 1 oclock is good. This way you dont get a nasty surprise if hands are in around belt and motor drops. Maybe set it at between 1 and 2 oclock. test it several times.

Click to expand...

I believe the big setscrew on the back of the leg/base sets the down locked/engaged position and provides a positive "over the center" feel to the lift handle. I still haven't set mine after the restoration, just been letting it ride on the weight of the countershaft/motor assembly with no slippage issues so far.