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South Bend 9" wide bed renovation

shpxnvz

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 13, 2015
Location
Livingston, TX
Hi everyone,

I'm starting a new South Bend renovation project. I've been looking for a small lathe for my home shop for a while and finally found a 9" wide bed that a forum member here was looking to part with. It's an older model from the mid 30's and looks like it will need at least a good cleaning to get back in top shape, but as I understand it not an excessive amount of wear or known broken bits.

Originally I was planning on just cleaning it up and running it but after seeing all the caked in gunk, grease and and rust I'm thinking I ought to go ahead and tear everything down for a more thorough cleaning and de-rusting and repaint wile I'm at it. I wouldn't mind having a nice looking machine as well as a functional one, and to be honest a clean machine will increase the WAF so that weighs in the decision a bit too.

I've got Steve Brooks' renovating guide (which the PO helpfully included) and will have to improvise or ask questions where the 9" wide bed differs from the material in the guide. For background I have no prior experience with lathes so I'm expecting a bit of a learning curve.

First things first, though, here are a few pics of the lathe in the garage for the first time.

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The PO did a great job packing up the parts to safely make the trip down the coast to me.

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Not sure why the two stamps on the bed.

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You've got a nice machine there. I hope it cleans up the way you want. You'll have a ball learning and making
things with that!

Cheers!

Pete
 
Thanks, I'm looking forward to taking my first cuts one day soon. Mostly I just want a solid functional machine that will last until I can hand it down to one of my children. If it ends up looking nice as well that's a nice bonus!

Here are some additional pics as I took off the gearbox. Have not found any broken teeth or other issues yet, but it's hard to tell with all the grease. I'm figuring I'll dunk most of the assembly in degreaser (minus the brass parts) for a while, then then do the electrolytic cleaning on any pieces that still need it.

And I already have a question that I hope someone here can answer. Can anyone tell me if the bull gear guard on this lathe is original? It doesn't seem to mesh with the fit and finish of the other cast parts on the lathe, and looks different from all pics of the 9R I've managed to find on the web. But, it does fit the profile of the gears pretty closely so it doesn't look entirely shop-fabricated. Any ideas?

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Here's a picture of the primary gear cover from my 1939 Heavy 9 - I can't tell from your picture but they look similar - I suspect your cover is original. The Ideal Machinery tag you show is most likely a dealer tag



Rick
 
That gear guard sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't imagine that it's original. Both of mine (right and left) have the same style. Nice looking lathe. Since I'm not particularly smart myself, I swipe good ideas from other people; next time I have to pack stuff for transport, I'm getting a couple of Homer buckets.
 
The bull gear guard is clearly shop made. I'm not sure if the one from a 10L will fit or not. If you take some measurements between the screw holes, etc, I could do the same on a 10L...

allan
 
That gear guard sticks out like a sore thumb. I can't imagine that it's original. Both of mine (right and left) have the same style. Nice looking lathe. Since I'm not particularly smart myself, I swipe good ideas from other people; next time I have to pack stuff for transport, I'm getting a couple of Homer buckets.

Yeah, the previous owner certainly had a clever idea with those, and they have the added benefit that when new the tops seal on so they are tamper-evident.

The bull gear guard is clearly shop made. I'm not sure if the one from a 10L will fit or not. If you take some measurements between the screw holes, etc, I could do the same on a 10L...

allan

Thanks, I will pull it off tonight and get a measurement.
 
Here's a picture of the primary gear cover from my 1939 Heavy 9 - I can't tell from your picture but they look similar - I suspect your cover is original. The Ideal Machinery tag you show is most likely a dealer tag

Rick

They are definitely similar, though I think the shape and location of some of the gear access holes seem to be a bit different. I'm guessing just a variation between '36 (which I'm led to believe was this lathe's year) and '39?
 
I'm the prior owner (although the gear guard was made at least two owners prior, so don't blame me).

The new owner's job is to make me regret selling it :-)

For reference, here's a pic from the 1930's catalog with the lathe (pic on the upper right):

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Steve
 
I am envious that you have the only NIC (New In Crate) collet closer that I've ever seen. Interesting to see how this stuff was originally delivered. EDIT: Crap, I see now that's just an old ammo box someone used. lol

I read that the double stamped bed ways was from the SB factory rebuilding service offered once upon a time.
 
next time I have to pack stuff for transport, I'm getting a couple of Homer buckets.

I was standing at the table saw trying to figure out how I was going to make a box big enough to hold the countershaft and pulley when I looked on the floor to my right and saw a compound bucket. Stuck it in and wouldn't you know, it just fit. Tried the motor mount and that went in too.

Nice thing is that once you put the lid on, you have to cut the tabs to get it off, so it's tamper-evident (of course, a thief could just go to HD and get more lids). They are also waterproof and have handles on them.

Leftover carpet padding makes great packing, too.

Steve
 
I am envious that you have the only NIC (New In Crate) collet closer that I've ever seen. Interesting to see how this stuff was originally delivered. EDIT: Crap, I see now that's just an old ammo box someone used. lol

I read that the double stamped bed ways was from the SB factory rebuilding service offered once upon a time.

Well it certainly feels new to me! :D

That's an interesting bit of info about the double stamping. I guess the lathe was rebuilt at some point. I think that's a good thing, seems like it should mean that it's somewhat newer in wear than it's contemporaries. Sadly, though, I would guess that there are no records of that sort of work around anymore.
 
The bull gear guard is clearly shop made. I'm not sure if the one from a 10L will fit or not. If you take some measurements between the screw holes, etc, I could do the same on a 10L...

allan

I measured 7 inches horizontal and 4 inches vertical distance between the screws.

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A few more pics as I get more of the lathe pulled apart so I can work on the bed.

First came the headstock and removal of the gear guards so I could measure the shop-made one. I found a little hiccup in the process.

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Looking closely you can see there's a single chipped tooth on the bull gear.

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Being new to this I have no idea if this is a problem. Better than half the tooth is still there, so maybe it's safe to run with the gear as is or will I be inviting some sort of disaster that way? Since I'm going to have the head stock apart anyways, should I be searching ebay for a new gear?


Off came the saddle and apron

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And then finally down to the bare bed. There is a little wear on the ways (as expected for an older and much-used machine). I'm not worried about it, but thought I'd show it for completeness and in case there is anything I should be careful about.

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Rear way.

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I don't really see many scraping marks but there are cross-hatch patterns on the untouched portions of the ways, so I'm guessing this means the bed was reground at some point in the past? If the double stamp does indicate it was rebuilt, it seems plausible that this may have been done at that point along with a repaint (I'm finding lots of green paint underneath the gray).

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I have seen several South Bend lathes that have no scraping marks (actually called flaking - it's primarily to keep oil on the surface), although if this had been rebuilt, then they may have been removed.

If you do the math (and it's too late right now for me to), a thou drop in the carriage will have a vastly smaller effect on the diameter of the part you are machining,

As far as the gear, I'm sorry I didn't catch that. It might be fine to use it like that, as most of the gear is there, but there are a number of different ways to do a repair on it, including brazing a piece of metal into it or just building up some weld and hand filing it to match.

BTW, did all the penetrant I put on it help with getting things unstuck?

Steve
 
You know, when I went to bed last night I thought, I hope that doesn't come off sounding negative. Just to be clear, I'm completely happy with the machine and it's condition. I mean it's eighty years old, I think it's amazing it's in as good condition as it is. And I have absolutely no doubt that it will do everything I ask of it.

With all the gunk built up over the decades, I don't think anyone could really have seen the chip in the gear without tearing it apart, so there's nothing to be sorry about at all.

I don't have a welder so that option is probably off the table, but I came into this expecting to have to replace a few things here and there, so I'm not too worried about buying a new gear if it comes to that so long as I can find one (and so long as the price is not outrageous). I'll probably want to look for a bull gear cover as well just to make her all original again.

Oh, the penetrant is definitely doing it's job. Everything is well unstuck and coming apart very easily (much more so than I expected).

Next will be getting set up to do the electrolytic cleaning on the bed. I'll try hanging it vertically in a plastic trash can since the bed is short enough to fit completely. One question there - is there any reason to remove the feet from the bed before electrolysis? I'm leaning towards leaving them on unless there's a compelling reason to pull them off.
 
If you can take the feet off, I would do that. If there's rust between the two, you want to get that out.

The penetrant I used was a 50/50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone. The ATF does the work and the acetone thins it out so that it creeps into the spaces.

Steve
 
I measured 7 inches horizontal and 4 inches vertical distance between the screws.

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I think the factory cover only attaches to the front and to the screw hole on top of the back gear boss just behind the chuck. Your hole on the back might have been added for your current cover. I measured my 10L, and the two holes it uses are separated by 7 inches front to back, with the screw closest to the operator 1" lower and 7/8" offset to the left. If the holes in your headstock are similar, the covers should interchange. Two possible problems: 1. the swinging cover over the bull gear plunger will have the wrong shape if it comes from a bronze-bearing model. 2. the cover does not cover the back of the headstock- the under motor drive lathes are closed there.

allan
 
I think the factory cover only attaches to the front and to the screw hole on top of the back gear boss just behind the chuck. Your hole on the back might have been added for your current cover. I measured my 10L, and the two holes it uses are separated by 7 inches front to back, with the screw closest to the operator 1" lower and 7/8" offset to the left. If the holes in your headstock are similar, the covers should interchange. Two possible problems: 1. the swinging cover over the bull gear plunger will have the wrong shape if it comes from a bronze-bearing model. 2. the cover does not cover the back of the headstock- the under motor drive lathes are closed there.

allan

Just looked at the headstock again and what you describe seems to match the layout I have, with a bolt hole on the boss to the rear. It also looks like this spindle has bronze bearings, so perhaps a standard cover would work? I don't particularly mind if it doesn't cover in the back, so if everything else ought to fit I can start searching for one.
 
Just looked at the headstock again and what you describe seems to match the layout I have, with a bolt hole on the boss to the rear. It also looks like this spindle has bronze bearings, so perhaps a standard cover would work? I don't particularly mind if it doesn't cover in the back, so if everything else ought to fit I can start searching for one.

Well, what I meant was that the 10L bronze bearing machines have taller bearing caps. The swinging cover over the bull gear pin will have a bigger cut out on those. You might find that the cover from a cast iron bearing 10L will work better.

allan
 








 
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