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South Bend heavy 10 motor size

PeterCarterSr

Plastic
Joined
Oct 7, 2016
I have a South Bend heavy 10 that I am purchasing a motor for. My question is what is the largest size motor that I can put on this? I'm going to be running a 3-phase motor on one phase power using a vfd. I was thinking about going with a little larger size motor than what is typically used because I will be running a vfd and there is a power loss running through a vfd.

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we were just discussing this.

Is your power supply 115 or 220?
What motor did it have? What was the shaft size?
is yours the 2 step motor pulley/countershaft?
Have you already purchased a VFD?

and the big one- what are your goals using the VFD?

If my replies seem kind of standoffish or short, that is not my intent, I just have great difficulty typing.

Happy New Year BTW. :)
 
we were just discussing this.

Is your power supply 115 or 220?
What motor did it have? What was the shaft size?
is yours the 2 step motor pulley/countershaft?
Have you already purchased a VFD?

and the big one- what are your goals using the VFD?

If my replies seem kind of standoffish or short, that is not my intent, I just have great difficulty typing.

Happy New Year BTW. :)
As far as power supply I can use either. What is your recommendation?


As far as the original motor size and pulley size, I do not know, when I purchased the lathe it did not have a motor.

Yes it does have a two step pulley.

The vfd; no I have not purchased one yet. I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I purchase the motor or the vfd. What are your recommendations?

I will be using the lathe mostly for model steam engine work. The reason for the vfd is to give me greater versatility.

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Marathon, E349 , 1 HP, 18 RPM, 23/46 Volts, TENV, 143T, New Surplus Electric Motor at Dealers Industrial

this is a seriously nice motor- TNEV too,so no worries about cooling.

And this is a seriously nice VFD, no enclosure needed,mount anywhere,all analog switches built in.
KBAC-24D 1HP VFD 115/23VAC GRAY 9987

With such a combo, you could dump the original motor v pulley and v belt, use an appropriately sized poly V pulley(easy to make)and belt, run it on the large step of the countershaft pulley and never have to touch the motor belt again.
 
As far as power supply I can use either. What is your recommendation?


As far as the original motor size and pulley size, I do not know, when I purchased the lathe it did not have a motor.

Yes it does have a two step pulley.

The vfd; no I have not purchased one yet. I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I purchase the motor or the vfd. What are your recommendations?

I will be using the lathe mostly for model steam engine work. The reason for the vfd is to give me greater versatility.

Sent from my LG-D950 using Tapatalk

The brand-spanking-new 10" "Toolroom" SB I helped install (leveling, leg bolting & shims) for our JR HS / HS Industrial arts shop around 1959/60 came with a 3/4 HP 3-Phase motor. It could "chirp" its leather belts, especially when push-button reversed on-the-fly, rolling the chuck across the shop floor until the Instructor and I worked up a sort of "washer" placed at the mounting shoulder that put a stop to the kid games. 26 Ga Aluminium or galvanized IIRC.

You won't need any more power than that, and you won't REALLY need a VFD, either.

SB gave the machines rather a good and useful selection of mechanical ratios, proven in long years of use across "many, many" SB's and all manner of end-luser choices of materials and turning applications.

Works well to JF adapt to what SB shipped, put scarce cash into tooling or workholding instead of a becoming Mother and minder to a VFD that has but about five-percent the useful life of the rest of the lathe.

There is enough total rotating mass inertia in motor, drivetrain, spindle, and workholding that 1-P motors are "smooth enough".

Keeping 3-P IS nicer for fast reversing, in which case any decent RPC, DIY included, is box-of-rocks dumb, but durable waaay beyond VFD life spans.

And Oh, BTW? It's only a SB.

Start biased to the "economical" side. You can ALWAYS upgrade it, later... IF there is a compelling reason for it.

Some of those "upgrades" mean trading for a different make of lathe entirely, so no need to make this into a moon-shot grade project.

After all, SB did not.

KISS
 
The brand-spanking-new 10" "Toolroom" SB I helped install (leveling, leg bolting & shims) for our JR HS / HS Industrial arts shop around 1959/60 came with a 3/4 HP 3-Phase motor. It could "chirp" its leather belts, especially when push-button reversed on-the-fly, rolling the chuck across the shop floor until the Instructor and I worked up a sort of "washer" placed at the mounting shoulder that put a stop to the kid games. 26 Ga Aluminium or galvanized IIRC.

You won't need any more power than that, and you won't REALLY need a VFD, either.

SB gave the machines rather a good and useful selection of mechanical ratios, proven in long years of use across "many, many" SB's and all manner of end-luser choices of materials and turning applications.

Works well to JF adapt to what SB shipped, put scarce cash into tooling or workholding instead of a becoming Mother and minder to a VFD that has but about five-percent the useful life of the rest of the lathe.

There is enough total rotating mass inertia in motor, drivetrain, spindle, and workholding that 1-P motors are "smooth enough".

Keeping 3-P IS nicer for fast reversing, in which case any decent RPC, DIY included, is box-of-rocks dumb, but durable waaay beyond VFD life spans.

And Oh, BTW? It's only a SB.

Start biased to the "economical" side. You can ALWAYS upgrade it, later... IF there is a compelling reason for it.

Some of those "upgrades" mean trading for a different make of lathe entirely, so no need to make this into a moon-shot grade project.

After all, SB did not.

KISS
If I don't go with a vfd then what single phase motor should I use? The one Horse Marathon motor that was posted earlier look like a high-quality motor to me. But again it's a three phase motor.

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I have a 3/4Hp single phase motor on my 10l. Plenty of power. Over the years I have collected VFD's, D.C. Drives and various motors. I have yet to install any of this stuff. The way It runs with near factory drive is way to convienent to mess with it. I looked at the motor last week to see what I put in there years ago, And found the countershaft with .1" shaft wear in a bearing. Soon I need to pull the countershaft out to make a new one. May go D.C. Then.
When using single phase, you can't plug reverse the motor and unscrew the chuck.
Yes it can and does happen, My first event was with my first lathe a Barnes with a single phase 2 speed motor. It would loosten the chuck if I switched from high to low speed with the spindle on a fast speed.

Bill
 
I have a 3/4Hp single phase motor on my 10l. Plenty of power. Over the years I have collected VFD's, D.C. Drives and various motors. I have yet to install any of this stuff. The way It runs with near factory drive is way to convienent to mess with it.

Much the same, here.

Whole stack of Rolls-Royce-grade (better, really, yah gotta know Rolls..) Reliance RPM III 180 VDC motors 1 HP to 5 HP.

Boxes of KB-Penta DC Drives in neat NEMA 4-X enclosure. More yet in Eurotherm/Parker-SSD higher voltage drives. Lots of serious money spent in testing, testing, testing - some of it "destructive", even.

And then?

I go and buy a Phase Craft 10 HP RPC controller, brand-new Weg 10 HP motor for idler, and not one but TWO 10 HP Phase-Perfects.

Whyso?

What we ALL tend to forget.. is that every machine-tool builder we deal with, no exceptions, had LOTS of time to sort out which pulleys, chains, gears, Reeves or PIV drives and such made the most sense for what his machine-tool was going to be asked to actually DO. They had Engineering. They didn't "guess". They applied tons of field experience, made improvements as tooling and materials changed, and tested again.

Tough act to follow by thinking that adding DC or VFD variable speed to what was already fit for its purpose is going to produce some sort of "magical-grade" improvement.

More often, it just adds another expensive gadget needing money spent up-front, f**k-with time spent, later.

And a serious delay before one is making chips AT ALL!

DAMHIKT
 
Just re-did a SB heavy nine. One hp, three phase, 1725 rpm motor. VFD is a 120 volt input Hitachi
sensorless vector drive. More power than one would need, works great. Controls remoted to
near the headstock.
 
Just re-did a SB heavy nine. One hp, three phase, 1725 rpm motor. VFD is a 120 volt input Hitachi
sensorless vector drive. More power than one would need, works great. Controls remoted to
near the headstock.

"If one is going to do that.." (DC Drive OR VFD that support the easy remoting of controls..)?

Yes.

May as well take advantage of its options so as to place controls AND E-Stops within easier reach than OEM.

Or a least no worse...

"Contaminated" by years of running lathes with ten and twelve foot beds, I like mine all on the carriage. Even on a mere 20" travel 10EE where HS and TS end are generally easy enough to reach.

Mind - it isn't HARD to do the same with 24 V controls on conventional motor-starters and contact-reversers, either.
 
For a Heavy 10 I would recommend a 3/4 - 1 HP motor whether it be single phase, 3 phase, or DC. The lathe just cannot utilize more horsepower than that. I have a 1-1/4 HP 3 phase motor with VFD. (I have 1-1/4 HP because somebody gave me the motor. Otherwise I'd have a 3/4 or 1 HP) The VFD is an ACtech 2 HP rated drive running on 230 volt input. Actually, a 1 HP rated drive would be perfectly happy running a 1 HP motor. Most of the VFD's I've seen have some overload capability for which you can specify percent overload and the time permitted to run in that condition.

If you have 230 volts available, I'd recommend that you use that as your source since you can then use lighter gauge power conductors to the VFD.

I think you'll find that having a variable speed drive motor is a great advantage because with it you can "tune" your machining operations to stay out of resonances that show up from time to time.

A DC motor would be equally as flexible but unless you fall into a killer deal, I believe you'll find the DC motor solution to be much more expensive than the 3-phase and VFD route.

And don't worry about the old wives tale about plug-reversing and spinning the chuck off. In 60+ years of lathe operation, I've never seen it happen. Plug reversing a motor severely enough to spin off a chuck puts tremendous electrical stress on the motor and supply circuits and there is little excuse for doing it. With a 3 phase motor and VFD you can tailor the motor acceleration and deceleration rates and you can easily set them so you can go directly from forward to reverse without overloading anything. It just won't be an instantaneous stop and re-start in the other direction. It will take a few seconds to accomplish.

So far as the motor itself is concerned, a fan-cooled version would be ideal since the motor is sealed up so no chips can get in. TENV means "totally enclosed non-vented" which is also sealed up but with only radiant and convective cooling available they tend to run a little hotter. It is however, hard to imagine you could have a heating problem running a 1 HP motor on a South Bend Heavy 10. An "open drip proof" motor configuration would probably just fine as well since the motor is hidden away under the lathe. The only possible nit-picking issue would be that the motor is mounted on its side under the lathe and it that position, it's no longer "drip-proof" and stuff could possibly get inside it if the "stuff" could ever get inside the cabinet to bother the motor.
 
Thanks for all the info when you guys answered all my questions. I think I got everything that I need.

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Mine has a 1/2 single phase, originally came with a 3/4 3 phase I believe. It had been changed before I bought it. I doubt you can really make use of more than 3/4 hp before the belt slides though.

I have a VFD to put on it eventually, and a 3/4 hp 1150 rpm motor. My thinking is that its easier to over-speed the motor vs under-speeding it. I won't lose as much power that way. Still haven't bothered though, the 1/2 single phase gets it done well enough.
 
I’m thinking about doing this to the 10L I just got. It has a 3/4 HP single phase motor on it that works fine. I keep trying to put it out of my mind because I know it doesn’t need it but I love the Hitachi drive I put on my Deckel FP1 that came with a 3 phase motor. The remote operator is great and displays actual RPM (Scaled.). And the Sensorless Vector Drive has surprising torque at low speed. So much so that I can turn it to zero speed to lock while I tighten or break loose the drawbar.

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