South Bend Milling Attachment Alternative

Hello all,
I have a model C 9 inch and am looking to do some projects that involve a slight amount of milling. I know that you can buy the original south bend attachment, but I am not to interested in spending the $200 plus on eBay just to be out bid anyway. So is there a cheaper alternative that I can easily fit onto the cross-feed.
Thanks,
Mark

There is the palmgren milling attachment, but it's even less rigid than the south bend.

You can buy a kit and machine your own
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382A.html

Short of that, and depending on what you need to do, you could mount a vise to the compound and shim your part to height.

Steve

Steve

Depending on the shape of your part and how often you need a milling attachment. The part can me mounted on a faceplate. Thomasutley did an impressive milling job on the flange of an electrical enclosure for his 16" south bend on a faceplate.
The milling attachment would be the way to go. They do go for crazy prices on ebay. I guess the market speaks on ebay but I laugh when some of the sellers put buy it now bargains then Have a outrageous shipping for a one pound part.

SteveM 's. Option looks good.

markpuglia said:

Hello all,
I have a model C 9 inch and am looking to do some projects that involve a slight amount of milling. I know that you can buy the original south bend attachment, but I am not to interested in spending the $200 plus on eBay just to be out bid anyway. So is there a cheaper alternative that I can easily fit onto the cross-feed.
Thanks,
Mark

Click to expand...

Around $300 to $400, you can actually buy a small horizontal milling machine of significant age. It will do far the better job, and you are off and running with a FULL set of new capabilities and challenges.

A horizontal mill also makes far the better lathe substitute, large swing, even if SHORT on the long-axis, (usually..) than a lathe makes at playing mill.

Thanks Steve that looks like a great option

That was my secondary option. Do you have any good mill suggestions for that price range I should look for

markpuglia said:

That was my secondary option. Do you have any good mill suggestions for that price range I should look for

Click to expand...

After a lot of evaluation, I targeted - and tried to buy - a "Diamond" mill with sliding head. Foolishly, I overlooked the more common Nichols and bought $300 worth of Burke # 4 /B-100-4 that was missing its original geared-head motor. PO threw in a couple of boxes of tooling as we loaded-out. Once I got around to assessing it, "enough" of it seem usable I sent him another hundred bucks. Bought a larger mill since, so the Burke languished.

For your use, work in the turning range of an SB 9, I'd look for a Whitney, Rockford, Burke, Hardinge Cataract or such. MUCH cheaper than the coveted TU/TM Hardinge.

There was a Cataract on ebay a short time ago at under $500. Bidding is still ongoing and just a tad above that:

Vintage Hardinge Bros. Cataract Bench Top Miller 3C Collet Milling | eBay

It even uses the same 3C collets as an SB 9 and takes up not a lot more space than a minibar fridge.

The whole tribe of small horizontals are waay too brute-simple to whine about restoral effort. There just isn't much THERE to go wrong, nor take long to put back right. Flat belt cone-head or vee-belts, few or no gears, etc.

Even so, within their work envelope, they are genuine, JFDI, MILLING MACHINES, not spaghetti-sloppy "adapters", and are capable of superb and enduring accuracy that makes a too-many-movable-joints BeePee vertical struggle - hard - to match.

BIG horizontals? Love em for their power, but can be a pain to literally "get your head around". And/or want rather MASSIVE angle plates.

SMALL ones? Not so much trouble.

Little bugger gives you grief as to laying an eyeball on the work or cutter? Just put caster wheels or a lazy-susan style turntable under it .. or ball-socket it to the wall, "Panavise" style!

The work is clamped to the mill, after all, and THAT part ain't allowing relative movement, even if the whole rig was hung out of a corner closet off a swing-arm fabbed of barnyard gate hinges.

Monarchist said:

There was a Cataract on ebay a short time ago at under $500. Bidding is still ongoing and just a tad above that:

Vintage Hardinge Bros. Cataract Bench Top Miller 3C Collet Milling | eBay

It even uses the same 3C collets as an SB 9 and takes up not a lot more space than a minibar fridge.

Click to expand...

First time I've ever even heard of such a thing as a benchtop horizontal mill like this. It's a cool little machine!

Thanks for sharing.

thomasutley said:

First time I've ever even heard of such a thing as a benchtop horizontal mill like this. It's a cool little machine!

Click to expand...

I see these little Barker bench tops Barker mill - YouTube now and then and wouldn't mind having one for the right price, but what they seem to fetch is like 1/3 of a clapped out old Bridgeport which in my case is hopefully eventual inevitability.

John Strange said:

I see these little Barker bench tops Barker mill - YouTube now and then and wouldn't mind having one for the right price, but what they seem to fetch is like 1/3 of a clapped out old Bridgeport which in my case is hopefully eventual inevitability.

Click to expand...

Barkers are still being made NEW, hence the prices are higher than for antiques and orphans.

They (still) fit a whole slew of small-item and second-op needs.

I've had just enough time on BirdPorts to be pleased if I don't have to mess with another until the 12th of never. Far too many better mills in the wild. Or closer to home.

Bill - you are kidding about the Cataract, aren't you?
That one has the collector version vise, so $200 - $300 right there. No motor, no countershaft, 4c collet tool holding system, limited travels. Yes, much better than milling on a SB 9 or 10K. But he'll have 7-800 by the time it is shipped and ready to use. You can buy a clapped out BP around here for that, or sometimes a decent off-brand. I know it was luck & connections, but my SB mill (BP size turret mill) cost $200. Though, like you, after it was delivered I gave the seller an extra $150.

It may look like milling on a lathe, which it sort of is, but those small bench-top mills are seldom good value for the money and capability unless bought as near scrap prices. Or unless the user primarily makes watches and such small parts.

Basically, a buyer needs to educate themselves about what typically might become available in their market, at what price range, quality, and component package. Decide what assortment of these "features" (eligible machines, condition, price, completeness) makes sense for what they want to do (not necessarily what they wish they only had to spend). At some point, they have to decide if spending the money makes more sense, of doing without. Regardless what "deals" they ever heard other people managed.

smt

stephen thomas said:

Bill - you are kidding about the Cataract, aren't you?
That one has the collector version vise, so $200 - $300 right there. No motor, no countershaft, 4c collet tool holding system, limited travels. Yes, much better than milling on a SB 9 or 10K. But he'll have 7-800 by the time it is shipped and ready to use. You can buy a clapped out BP around here for that, or sometimes a decent off-brand. I know it was luck & connections, but my SB mill (BP size turret mill) cost $200. Though, like you, after it was delivered I gave the seller an extra $150.

It may look like milling on a lathe, which it sort of is, but those small bench-top mills are seldom good value for the money and capability unless bought as near scrap prices. Or unless the user primarily makes watches and such small parts.

Basically, a buyer needs to educate themselves about what typically might become available in their market, at what price range, quality, and component package. Decide what assortment of these "features" (eligible machines, condition, price, completeness) makes sense for what they want to do (not necessarily what they wish they only had to spend). At some point, they have to decide if spending the money makes more sense, of doing without. Regardless what "deals" they ever heard other people managed.

smt

Click to expand...

LOTS of folk make small parts. Think robotics, drones, etc. where "tall clock" or mini-steam models once ruled.

Seller claims "3C". Nowhere near my area of expertise, but that small table also has three Tee-slots to the 13" Burke table's ONE.

As to powering it? I could have a nearby Carquest NAPA PolyVee belt running squishy-ribs to crowned cone-pulley metal on it with a 180 VDC Reliance RPM III DC motor and KB Controller on it out of my extensive stash, same day of arrival.

Wiser, of course, to take the time to see to the plain bearings, but wot the hey - we both know that's a re-purposed Cataract LATHE HS, and on sliding dovetails for extra flexibility.

Righteous kit as tiny mills go.

Given the Quartet is shaping up, I'd trade the Burke for one in a New York Minute.

Bee Pee as a someday-maybe GOAL? Laughable.

Quartet combo-mill may be Rube-Goldberg as to drive systems, but it is also a way heavier (5200 + Avoir) more powerful (5 HP, 1 1/2 HP, 3/4 HP, 1/2 HP) and stiffer kludge than a BeePee.

Rare bird, a Quartet, and not the best of choices for Joe Average in any case.

But there are plenty of better non-BeePee choices that are not so rare.

I have a friend that's a retired machinist. He said he wore out a Bridgeport every year, he built trim dies. I personally can't say how hard they were used. Employees sometimes don't care and abuse. I do know that there are a lot of them for sale that need rebuilt and the prices are inflated because everyone knows the name.
I have a Kerney Trecker 2 D that I can't wait to get operating. I played with it some when I got it.
A mill and a lathe are like a right and left arms. You need both. Even for hobby use.

SteveM said:

There is the palmgren milling attachment, but it's even less rigid than the south bend.

You can buy a kit and machine your own
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA-5.html
http://www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/S-4382A.html

Short of that, and depending on what you need to do, you could mount a vise to the compound and shim your part to height.

Steve

Steve

Click to expand...

Just FYI for everyone reading this, the State College Central items (from SteveM's response to OP) have a new link since this thread was posted:



I was glad the dead links did not mean the company was gone, they just have a new domain and link. Great kits and nice castings, I have purchased a few.

Bernie

mpug25 said:

Hello all,
I have a model C 9 inch and am looking to do some projects that involve a slight amount of milling. I know that you can buy the original south bend attachment, but I am not to interested in spending the $200 plus on eBay just to be out bid anyway. So is there a cheaper alternative that I can easily fit onto the cross-feed.
Thanks,
Mark

Click to expand...

I retrieved a compound with slide from a scrapped lathe, and planned to mount it on an angle plate bolted to my cross slide. It seemed like the perfect solution for vertical travel. It never happened but it is another way to go.