South Bend No. 2-H Turret Lathe 16"x6' Restoration - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Prime and paint the bed:

    83.jpg84.jpg85.jpg

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    great job so far! I like your description of what your doing. jonathan

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    The problem as I understand it with non-machine oils is that the detergents are made to hold moisture and dirt in suspension to be sorted out with the filter. Moisture cooks off with heat. Your bearings should not get nearly hot enough to cook off the moisture in the oil, so you might actually have corrosion problems with oil that holds moisture. There is also no filter to clear the dirt. I would really be running the proper oil in there. It also needs to be a specific viscosity in order to form the proper oil film to keep the spindle from touching the bearing. It floats in there, and if the oil doesn't flow properly it will not float like it should.

    The way oil is supposed to be sticky so it stays in place. Its probably similar in viscosity to diff oil, but probably more of a mix between diff oil and chain saw bar oil in terms of how it behaves. I haven't actually opened that bottle on mine. Been busy getting the gunk off the bed. Mine is actually out on the picnic table now, ready for paint today hopefully.

    Babbit is probably correct. I don't see the screw holes for the wedge expander that the bronze bearings used.

    Looking good though. Its definitely better off now that you've got it.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    The problem as I understand it with non-machine oils is that the detergents are made to hold moisture and dirt in suspension to be sorted out with the filter. Moisture cooks off with heat. Your bearings should not get nearly hot enough to cook off the moisture in the oil, so you might actually have corrosion problems with oil that holds moisture. There is also no filter to clear the dirt. I would really be running the proper oil in there. It also needs to be a specific viscosity in order to form the proper oil film to keep the spindle from touching the bearing. It floats in there, and if the oil doesn't flow properly it will not float like it should.

    The way oil is supposed to be sticky so it stays in place. Its probably similar in viscosity to diff oil, but probably more of a mix between diff oil and chain saw bar oil in terms of how it behaves. I haven't actually opened that bottle on mine. Been busy getting the gunk off the bed. Mine is actually out on the picnic table now, ready for paint today hopefully.

    Babbit is probably correct. I don't see the screw holes for the wedge expander that the bronze bearings used.

    Looking good though. Its definitely better off now that you've got it.
    Thanks a lot. Also you have good points about the oils and such. I'm not a machinist by trade. I've spent most of my adult life as a mechanic in one respect or another. Started with heavy equipment and heavy trucks, some automotive, but mostly in industrial and commercial marine, doing troubleshooting, repair, overhaul work to diesel engines, gen set packages, gear boxes and such. Again not a machinist, but I have done line bores, bored cylinder blocks and counter bores, some cylinder head work.

    Unless its press fit stuff, most of the stuff i've done has tolerances measured in thousandths, not ten thousandths. After ordering the four oils, I spent a few hours reading different arguments on which oils, which cooling fluid, and so on. And honestly, I can't recall a single failure or anything blowing up because of wrong grade oil. Its always been NO lube, or something got rained in, or flooded with water that leads to those types of premature failures, just my opinion.

    I've seen a bunch of threads arguing the points, so not really looking to start a thing here, haha. But I'll give an example of what i think I know, lol. Eaton roadranger transmissions in heavy trucks. Back in the day, most people used gear oil, it would last lets say a million miles, give or take. Some people used engine oil, again it would last a million miles. Then somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's maybe, the manufacture wanted everyone to use only synthetic, which felt real thin to me at the time, but it still would last a million miles. Same transmission, with no oil filter, maybe some magnets glued to bottom of the case.

    Another example are marine gears in tug boats and other motor vessels. Marine gears are basically boat transmissions, simple automatics with foward, neutral, and reverse. They put engine oil, gear oil or whatever in them. They generally run about 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit. They do have filters, but water dissipation seems to be a non issue, odd because they are in pretty corrosive and humid atmospheres, but they look immaculate inside if you ever open one up, the oil never changes color. And they have a crazy service life, maybe 100,000 hours of run time or more before any major service.

    Anyway, my point is, I think the aprons being mini gear boxes would be fine, regardless of what we use. The ways I probably will use the way oil, or something sticky in case the machine sits a period of time. The headstock troubles me the most. I dont really like the lube system for that, particularly because its more high speed with tight tolerance. would love to see some pressure there, but it would be a god awful mess without some sort of sealing or drain back system, but thats getting way complicated. It does have the felts to catch some particles. Mine also has some sort of reliefs just above the fill cups, they ooze oil out if over full it seems. Also mine has an oil hole in top center of the larger cap, so I can give it some squirts and let it flow from relief/excess holes if I want to be a total slob, lol. Was considering drilling a similar hole in left side cap as well, for the same reason.

    I'm thinking if I had all new parts, I might roll with the spindle oil, as everything would be real tight. But with the wear i see, I think the atf will work for now. Also I did try both. Needed 2 hands to turn spindle with spindle oil. I can roll it one hand with atf, and get a some extra spin with my hand coming away. Rubbing them between my fingers the atf was more slippery, the spindle fluid felt like dot 3 brake fluid to me. Just an opinion.

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    Got the chip pan cleaned, preped, and painted. Someone must have been trying to pick the machine up with it in the past. But this pan ain't thin sheet metal, could not bang it straight,its pretty stout. Lucking with it mounted its not noticeable:

    91.jpg92.jpg

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    Started working on the base. That motor ain't coming out through the door. Machine would have to go straight up or on its side. I found it easiest to flip the base upside down:

    86.jpg87.jpg88.jpg90.jpg

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    Well, some oil has to be better than no oil. No argument there. I did some reading on the topic too, and basically it seems that people much more experienced than me say to use the oil the manufacturer suggests. Of all the stuff in one of these, the spindle bearings are probably the most critical about having the right viscosity, though of course that somewhat depends on your clearances too.


    I'm no machinist either. I've wrenched on various things over the years, and now I'm wrenching on a lathe. Still haven't made a chip with it yet, just cleaned a lot of chips and nasty oil out of it. Eventually I'd like to be able to make some parts to fix some of my junk though, and maybe make a few parts for others that can't be gotten anymore.


    Surprises me that the motor won't come out through the door. You'd think that would be replaceable without having to take apart the lathe in order to access it., even if it is a PITA to actually do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    Well, some oil has to be better than no oil. No argument there. I did some reading on the topic too, and basically it seems that people much more experienced than me say to use the oil the manufacturer suggests. Of all the stuff in one of these, the spindle bearings are probably the most critical about having the right viscosity, though of course that somewhat depends on your clearances too.


    I'm no machinist either. I've wrenched on various things over the years, and now I'm wrenching on a lathe. Still haven't made a chip with it yet, just cleaned a lot of chips and nasty oil out of it. Eventually I'd like to be able to make some parts to fix some of my junk though, and maybe make a few parts for others that can't be gotten anymore.


    Surprises me that the motor won't come out through the door. You'd think that would be replaceable without having to take apart the lathe in order to access it., even if it is a PITA to actually do.
    My plan is to make some odd ball parts as well. I have a handful of real world uses also, plus some barrel work to rifles that this may come in handy. But I really feel like I need a lathe to make stuff for my lathe, lol. It's taking way too much time to be profitable, but I've been considering purchasing a second lathe, get one done, finish the second and sell it. Again not a huge profit, but i've been enjoying the work, could be a decent and productive past time.

    Not sure the actual physical size of the original motor, it was a 2hp, 440v and 2 speed at 900 and 1800rpm. This one, while old and big is unknown hp to me, its 220v and also 2 speeds, again 900 and 1800. when I get the electric to it I'll measure amps to get the hp. Not very sure if it is physically larger than the original or not. It wont go out the larger left side vent cover either. The main thing blocking the way is the mount with pulleys above it, even when cranking the handle to move them up, it wont be enough. A lot of the 16" toolroom style lathes with same base were 1.5 hp, maybe smaller in size, not sure.
    Even working to get that mounting and pully system out, I cant imagine doing it upright, or machine assembled. Its heavy and awkward, I really cant see using jacks and working upside down. It was a beast where I could get to it easier. And knocking that shaft through the case with all the weight on it. . . Much more manageable on its side or upside down.

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    The base empty and pulley with motor mount on floor:

    94.jpg93.jpg

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    Worked on getting the base done:

    104.jpg105.jpg106.jpg107.jpg

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    Then worked on getting some big pieces together. Base, bed, chip pan, and front legs. Real pleased with the results so far. Now I can just hang the sub assemblies on it as I finish them, instead of eating up room all over the shop, lol.

    108.jpg109.jpg

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    Been working on getting vids done for anyone interested. Got part 5 done, 6 will probably be posted tomorrow. They are slightly behind the time line of the pics I've already posted.
    Part 5:

    South Bend No 2-H Turret Lathe Part 5 Apron and Saddle Removal - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasutley View Post
    Have you done any research on your cross slide and cross slide handwheel to know if they're OEM items? They don't look stock to me with the t-slots and oversized dial, etc. However, if they're aftermarket or custom made, they look really well done. I'd kill for t-slots and an easy to read dial like that. My dial is small on an 8 TPI screw so it's 125 thou/revolution. Someday I'd like to replace it with a 10 TPI screw so it's 100 thou/turn.
    Quoting you of youtube, so others maybe are not confused, haha.

    Plus my reply at the time:
    The cross slide with t slots I'm nearly 100% are how it came. The turret lathe originally came with turret tool post, not the swiveling compound and lantern type on tool room lathes. With that config it allowed a tool post on both sides. An option, or upgrade was to remove it for taper attachment, which could only use tool room style. The dial, i'm not sure, but guess original, as the shield behind it fit it and is pressed into saddle somehow. I just happen to be working on those parts now, ordered crossfeed nut, and am cleaning/ painting saddle. Its 11/16 x 8 LH. If you check my 2nd post on forums, in the resto thread, you can see pics of the brochure which show it. And I'll post some pics of the pieces later today that you're asking about.

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    To answer further, taking some pics and looking at parts, I don't see part numbers on dial or wheel. But I do have numbers on cross slide and shield with indicator. Also looking at the parts book for this model it would seem they match, kind of. Number is right, but book shows H1 after number, while parts show 16 preceding the number:

    110.jpg111.jpg112.jpg113.jpg

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    In case you're curious the dimension of dial I'll post some pics maybe helpful. Using some math I think the length between increments could be figured out, its close to .090 between each, going zero and 120 back to zero. Again I'm 11/16 x 8 LH on crossfeed screw:

    116.jpg115.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    In case you're curious the dimension of dial I'll post some pics maybe helpful. Using some math I think the length between increments could be figured out, its close to .090 between each, going zero and 120 back to zero. Again I'm 11/16 x 8 LH on crossfeed screw:

    116.jpg115.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    To answer further, taking some pics and looking at parts, I don't see part numbers on dial or wheel. But I do have numbers on cross slide and shield with indicator. Also looking at the parts book for this model it would seem they match, kind of. Number is right, but book shows H1 after number, while parts show 16 preceding the number:

    110.jpg111.jpg112.jpg113.jpg
    Thanks for posting these. Looks like we both have crossfeed screws with 125 thou/rev. I'll do the upgrade once I have the machine back together this fall. Appears that slotted cross slide won't work with my taper attachment, but there's no reason I can't make one that will... That would be a challenging project once I have a mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasutley View Post
    Thanks for posting these. Looks like we both have crossfeed screws with 125 thou/rev. I'll do the upgrade once I have the machine back together this fall. Appears that slotted cross slide won't work with my taper attachment, but there's no reason I can't make one that will... That would be a challenging project once I have a mill.
    Did you ever have something gnawl at you and you don't know why till you go back to check ? Yea, 125, that was mine today, lol. Even though I read the original question, took and posted the pic, and then saw your comment it didn't click in mentally. I happen to be shopping with the wife and it occurred to me you said 125. With the pic on my phone, i opened it up and sure enough, son of gun. Missed the 15 increments at the return to zero. Of course now that i see it, I cant un-see it, haha. Haven't used the machine yet to know, or hooked up indicators to go over it yet.

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    hm, wonder what the reason for 125 per revolution is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gadget73 View Post
    hm, wonder what the reason for 125 per revolution is.
    It's just the result of selecting an 8TPI screw. Imagine the dial for a 6TPI thread...166-2/3 thou per turn.

    Most who do the swap choose a 10TPI thread so it's easier to keep track of multiple turns. Requires changing the screw, but, and dial so it's not necessarily a cheap swap. Nowadays, if your budget permits, it's easy to add a DRO that lets you ignore the dials for all but the finest of creeper finish cuts.

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    Got the rack mounted. Wanted to upgrade the flat head screws, as multiple were loose. Choose allen head. Had to cut the over all length of them, plus I had to grind the heads down some to get them a touch counter sunk. Used medium loctite on them also. But the result is good.

    118.jpg119.jpg120.jpg

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