What is the real value of the new South Bend lathes?

Pretty well known what people are getting grizzled for these new, but it's always good to understand and see what South Bend lathes are going for on the street.

This lathe was originally listed for $2500/obo and now it's $1180/obo and not sold.

Still diffiuclt to understand how much a street value price is, but nobody has jumped on it for $1180/obo. Kind of a telling story that the buyer only used it for about 1 hour before deciding to sell it and wllling to take a 50% loss on his purchase.

(linky pic to craigslist ad)

Sad to see this!

I am not particularly impressed with these lathes, and think they are pretty overpriced, new.
But one example hardly tells us much about street value.

I bought a Ford Falcon once for $125.
There is one a lot like it on Hemmings today for fifteen grand.

Which price is the "street value"?

My guess is that Grizzly is still sellling a fair amount of these things new for full price, and that some of the people who buy them are perfectly happy with em, and some arent.

I thing that is the 8" and that it has been discontinued, and that they were closed out at a lower price. That may be close to what was paid for it originally. Also the original owner may have been unhappy with it because of the table he put it on. Look at the photo, there are chips on the tablr and that table looks flimsily.

Looking how that is mounted to the table ....
It cant be a good thing when the lathe hangs over the ends and back...

That installation brings up some questions...
Maybe the problem isnt the lathe...

my biggest thought is that they come with no accessories. you would have to buy a 4-jaw, steady & follow rest separately if you wanted them. the chuck is easy to get, but the steady & follow would likely have to be bought from grizzly for $650 combined whether you got the lathe new or used. basically, you will pay $3000 to get it all new, or for that one used add in the steady, follow, and a cheap import chuck and you are still at $2000. $2000 for an 8x18 lathe with change gears just doesn't sound too enticing to me, let alone $3000. i wonder where the wisdom was in coming up with a lathe in that price range without a gearbox. i mean, you still give the customer a large stack of loose gears. would it really have cost that much more to configure the lathe with a qcgb? i've got a 9b, and don't currently use it because everything i do is a one-off and constant changes are a nusiance. i can't imagine anyone buying this and using it for volume prodiction of one part that didn't require gear changes either.

to keep it in the grizzly family, figure the south bend with accessories at $3000 new/$2000 used. grizzly sells the variable speed 10x22 for $1700 with all the accessories - granted, the low speed is only 100rpm where the sb shows 50rpm. the conventional 10x22 is $1250, and for that $450 you could get a 3ph motor & vfd and (maybe?) get a better speed setup. also, the 10x22 isn't a huge physical size change, but i would think it to be more rigid than the new sb? i dunno, maybe the quality of these is far greater than the rest of the imports they sell, but if not, the price is out of line.

Wow, South Bend used to produce such an elegant looking machine! This is sad to see.

This is pretty basic machine with no QC box. It may not even have a change gear set. It is not a viable test of the value of Grizzly lathes. With this lathe, it's low power, low stiffness, small size and no tooling, it has little going for it. Grizzly has other models which are much more capable. In point of fact, I would have no use for it at any price.

I'd guess that after only one hour of use, the original owner was damn tired of changing gears for every different feed and/or thread.

Does it even have power cross feed? I can't tell on my old screen. I see the half-nut lever and traverse wheel. PB

Ries said:

I am not particularly impressed with these lathes, and think they are pretty overpriced, new.
But one example hardly tells us much about street value.

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I agree, but it is real world in the Bay area, where lathes are at a premium. It may have sold, the posting was deleted. Probably not a bad deal if someone was in the market for that very lathe, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of demand for them around these parts.

Ries said:

Which price is the "street value"?

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The $1080/obo, in the ad it said he paid about $2300 for it new. I'm sure Grizzly is Grizzling enough people to keep them happy.

steve-l said:

This is pretty basic machine with no QC box. It may not even have a change gear set. It is not a viable test of the value of Grizzly lathes. With this lathe, it's low power, low stiffness, small size and no tooling, it has little going for it. Grizzly has other models which are much more capable. In point of fact, I would have no use for it at any price.

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And that is a key point...it is for all intents and purpose a GrizzlyBerry, not a South Bend. Calling it a South Bend doesn't make it one, IMO.

Looks like one that you just know when you turned something that it would feel like it was lubricated by foundry sand

johnoder said:

Looks like one that you just know when you turned something that it would feel like it was lubricated by foundry sand

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LOL...that's a funny comment.

Odd thing though is that these newer machines don't seem to take away anything from the vintage South Bends. More people attracted to them for practical use rather than these newer breed of Chinese machines.

I would guess that these newer machines can be made to do fairly accurate work given some tenacity, but isn't that true of Chinese machines in general?

Really a shame that the South Bend name was purchased solely as a revenue label. A lot of people will consider buying them based on brand recognition.

Caveat Emptor! The fact this wasn't snatched up quickly at less than half the purchase value makes one wonder...

About 30 years ago, I decided my shop needed a small lathe. Most of the lath work we had been doing would have been easier and quicker done on a smaller machine. My ace engineer (true statement) said right away "Get a South Bend, you can't go wrong. Don't get one of those imports". A South Bend dealer was about 2 miles from my shop. An import dealer was about 1 mile from my shop.

The import dealer was close and supplied most of the drills, taps, etc., that we needed. I stopped in one day and looked at an import lathe (don't remember the name) that he had on the floor. Nice looking machine. 1.5" hole through the head, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, taper attachment, steady rest, follower rest, hardened ways, lead screw was only used for threading, coolant pump, and a little tool kit. Nice. I left with a brochure on the machine.

I drove down the street and looked at the South Bend lathe that was on the floor. The size was comparable. 3/4" hole through the head, a 3 jaw chuck. I was looking around the bed closely to see if it said "hardened ways" anywhere. I don't remember if it did. What it did say on the back side, under the edge, near the tail end, "Made in Korea". I left with a brochure on the machine.

The import machine was $100 more. I brought the brochures back to the shop and gave them to my engineer and asked him to take his time and look them over. There was no price info anywhere for him to see. It was Friday.

On Monday, I asked him what he thought. He said "What else comes with the South Bend?" I told him anything else was gonna cost extra. Then he asked the price.....and the price of the import. I told him, and he found it hard to believe. I told him "Today, when you go to lunch, stop by both places and look them over.....oh and be sure to notice on the underside of the rear of the back way where it says Made in Korea". I thought he was gonna have a heart attack. He was near 80 years old and "South Bend" was sacred. He did go and check them out.

Next day we talked and he told me to by the import.

Interesting story. I thought the SB 1307 was made in Korea. Was that the machine you were looking at do you remember?

Those are very well respected machines and from the pics I've seen it looks like a quality toolroom lathe. There have a been a few over the past several years that have shown up here.

I think there's something we can all learn from all of it, I'm not sure what though...

The old South Bend lathes are well respected and rightfully so, but what made them so successful was, IMO, having such a simple yet broad product line. Most all of their lathes were based on the same technology, just different sizes. Deviating to go offshore was a mistake...

Cheers,
Alan

traditional-tools said:

Interesting story. I thought the SB 1307 was made in Korea. Was that the machine you were looking at do you remember?

Those are very well respected machines and from the pics I've seen it looks like a quality toolroom lathe. There have a been a few over the past several years that have shown up here.

I think there's something we can all learn from all of it, I'm not sure what though...

The old South Bend lathes are well respected and rightfully so, but what made them so successful was, IMO, having such a simple yet broad product line. Most all of their lathes were based on the same technology, just different sizes. Deviating to go offshore was a mistake...

Cheers,
Alan

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See:http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/dc-motors-south-bend-lathes-220649/ post 12

Per SBLatheman (Ted) the 1307 was built in South Bend. There is a lot of information out there about the provenance of the South Bend 1307. Arguably the most reliable information is from the source I've cited.

I think think that the South Bend Lost Again described was the 10K which was built for South Bend in Korea the last few years that it was in production. And I'm reasonably sure that by that time the flame hardened bed was standard for this model too.

David

old_dave said:

I think think that the South Bend Lost Again described was the 10K which was built for South Bend in Korea the last few years that it was in production. And I'm reasonably sure that by that time the flame hardened bed was standard for this model too.

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That sounds like it, and different beast than the 1307.