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Gary Martin Camelback Straight Edge Castings

nygavin

Plastic
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Hi,
I've spoken at length with Gary and we would like to make a batch of 36" or 48" length camelback style straightedges. Gary would require a minimum order of 5 of either length to start production. The required deposit for a camelback would be $250 for the 36 and 300 for the 48 inch respectively. In case you have not spoken with Gary he is an incredibly talented and experienced pattern maker. The final cost would be around 400-450 for the 36" and 450-500 for the 48 inch. Right now we just need people to show a level of interest and if we can get a minimum of 5 deposits on a length Gary will start work on the pattern. As a matter of fact if we get a minimum of 5 of each size Gary will do both. We also discussed the possibility of having them rough machined prior to delivery and if all buyers could agree to this it can be managed at a very reasonable additional cost provided all buyers agreed to have them machined. The castings will be made from class 30-40 equivalent grey cast and will be fully heat treated with a 24-36 hour schedule:
4 hour ramp to 1650F
6 hours at temp
50 degree per hour cool down period to 800F
shutdown and coast to ambient

Gary says that in his experience there have been almost no complaints using this process.

Please PM me if you are interested and I'll relay any questions to Gary. Right now we really would like to get a feel for what interest is out there and we can take it from there with regards to payments, dates and machining info. Show is an example of the style he intends to produce but is willing to take suggestions / modifications for the final patterns.

straight edge.jpg

Gavin
 
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Agreed,
And I think the price is quite reasonable considering he's willingly to make the patterns however the group wants in regards to exact dimensions. He's going to email me some exact dimensions and pics of the 52" as a starting point. Will keep everyone posted.

Thanks
 
As an update I have some pics of the current 52" pattern Gary has. You can see dimensions in the pics. Gary would like to just offer the 52" and a 36" so he doesn't have to make the 48" pattern which is reasonable (only 4inch diff anyway). The weight of the 52 is about 125 pounds. Deposits will be 300 for the 52 inch and 250 for the 36". If you pm me I will give you payment options to Gary. A soon as he gets 5 deposits on the 36" he will start work. Details will follow about machining, heat treating, shipping and paying the balance due.
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Before investing too much in a new pattern, I would indeed check the interest and available alternatives.
Weight is a big issue and it is discussed in this thread.
And, considering what's potentially available now in 36" length, one has not to forget Denis Foster's "featherweight"
I do not know how reliable he is in terms of production times and i do not have (yet) any direct experience with any of his straightedges. The feedback I read on various threads seems rather positive and, likely, I'll end up buying one mysels as soon as I gather enough money. Anyhow, here is the last posting for a batch for sale.

Regarding Gary, I have to say that he is very reliable in terms of production and timing. Together with a few others at Tuckahoe, we bought three of his 18" ones and have started machining them, one on my Van Norman and two on the Rockford planer at Tuckahoe: the material looks great and, possibly, a little bit on the soft side. Very uniform, practically no casting flaws, so far. His casting come already stress-relieved and I'll soon see how they scrape and hold the shape.

Paolo
 
The feather weight straight edge is interesting, but does not have the dovetail feature. Also, I have a Busche 36" parallel straight edge that weighs about the same and is a little more versatile.
 
Before investing too much in a new pattern, I would indeed check the interest and available alternatives.
Weight is a big issue and it is discussed in this thread.
And, considering what's potentially available now in 36" length, one has not to forget Denis Foster's "featherweight"

Weight.. is indeed a progressively more challenging issue as length hits and passes the 30" mark. Or thereabouts.

UNDER 30", I am not convinced the classical "camelback" or arched truss "bridge" stiffener is even a critical need for typical use. Genuinely functional? Or just a bow to tradition?

Short rectangular "box" types resembling a Cast Iron carpenters level in shape, though not precision, or even solid prisms as used for dovetails would seem to be stiff enough.

Now .. if that "camelback" is USED to reduce mass in the sole, then perhaps it is still of good value. The "King Way" designs seem to do that. More functional that pretty 'coz the designer(s) were primary users. Some other shapes, not so much.

Pragmatist (or even "lazy wimp") with Old-Age musclature, ligaments, and aversion to avoidable work here, not young, heavily-muscled professional scraper with a need to PROVE anything much, so...

"2CW" only.... don't mind me... unless you are also wasted-energy-averse on ever-so-repetitive tasking?

:)
 
I Don't know about package pricing. Each length will have to have a minimum order of 5. As far as weight is concerned I wanted to make it clear that Gary is open to what ever modifications the group deems necessary. The pattern has yet to be made so the sole can be thinned down as well as the ribs. I will mention this to him an I'm sure we can get the weight down to something manageable without sacrificing stiffness. I am sending a check for my deposit on the 36" today and I suggest the other two fellows that contacted me do the same.
 
The feather weight straight edge is interesting, but does not have the dovetail feature. Also, I have a Busche 36" parallel straight edge that weighs about the same and is a little more versatile.

Actually, Denis' design is indeed for a dovetail straightedge. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to be so asymmetric, with the sole being mostly on one side of the rib. Yes, it looks like it's cast square, but it can be easily machined at an angle.
Honestly, I don't remember much from his thread were he describe his design process and the various improvements and I'll need to re-read it. However, leaving it square in the casting and machining it later to an angle might be a trick to avoid creating areas with different hardness and grain structure in the sole.

Paolo

PS As somebody said, on shorter straightedges everything goes, but when you deal with something longer, deformations grow more than proportionally.
 
I Don't know about package pricing. Each length will have to have a minimum order of 5. As far as weight is concerned I wanted to make it clear that Gary is open to what ever modifications the group deems necessary. The pattern has yet to be made so the sole can be thinned down as well as the ribs. I will mention this to him an I'm sure we can get the weight down to something manageable without sacrificing stiffness. I am sending a check for my deposit on the 36" today and I suggest the other two fellows that contacted me do the same.

This sounds good
Is a finished weight of 35# ish reasonable?
What sort of a lead time are we talking?
 
Once Gary gets the deposits I wouldn't expect a very long lead time at all, maybe a month but please let me confirm that when I speak to him again. We were talking well under 50 pounds maybe 45ish. But I've alerted him how important that is and he is going to be very aggressive about removing as much "Fat" as possible so I'm pretty confident we can get it down to a very manageable weight. Not a feather but not anything that will send you to chiropractor. Ha you asked about the Weight and the Wait:)
 
If I were to invest in making a new pattern, I'd consider something in between 24" and 36", mostly a 30" one, for two main reasons: first, the classic 24" and 36" lengths are already covered by successful designs (e.g. KingWay, Busch-although rather heavy-, Denis' featherweight, etc.); Second, a 30" dovetail straightedge will fit in many places where a 36" is too long for and a 24" is on the short side.

I don't know who of you has tried spotting a long dovetail, trying to get a feel for convexity/concavity: it ain't not the most trivial task and any extra pound is your enemy.

Paolo
 
If I were to invest in making a new pattern, I'd consider something in between 24" and 36", mostly a 30" one, for two main reasons: first, the classic 24" and 36" lengths are already covered by successful designs (e.g. KingWay, Busch-although rather heavy-, Denis' featherweight, etc.); Second, a 30" dovetail straightedge will fit in many places where a 36" is too long for and a 24" is on the short side.

I don't know who of you has tried spotting a long dovetail, trying to get a feel for convexity/concavity: it ain't not the most trivial task and any extra pound is your enemy.

Paolo

Agree .. in principal, anyway. Just bought a used 30" from Wes.

But - really - it is all down to WHAT machinery one needs to work on, and whether as a hobby / PERSONAL machine restorer sometimes, maybe, whenever in the mood - or for a crust on other folk's machinery and their deadlines.

Pity there isn't a rental agency for all of these goods.
 
Does the 52" really weigh 125 lbs? I was just looking at a 72" camelback that weighs 90lbs. It did not have the dovetail feature, but it's almost 2 feet longer.
 
That is what Gary said. I think the really long camelbacks with no dovetail also have a very thin narrow sole. The 52" from Gary is 4 inches wide and I think 1.5 inch thick. That's about 75 pounds right there in the sole. Gary doesn't want to modify the current 52 inch pattern but is willing to cast a couple if need be. Hope that helps
 
Does the 52" really weigh 125 lbs? I was just looking at a 72" camelback that weighs 90lbs. It did not have the dovetail feature, but it's almost 2 feet longer.

My B&S 48" is only 30.4 lbs Avoir. Just now weighed it since a decent scale was handy.

I'd surely not want one any heavier!

It has the dovetail to one side of the sole, probably left B&S finished, but from the look of it a PO quit in the middle of refinishing it. Anyway - the metal is "there".
 
Any chance you want to sell that 48"? I've got a prism type straight edge that's 42" long (I'm sure it was made for rebuilding Bridgeports), so I don't really need the dovetail feature.
 








 
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