WTB: 4C 3" step collet

Hello, As the title states, I'm looking for a 4C, 3" step collet for my Hardinge BB$ mill. Thanks!!!!

pete

If no one else responds, give me a bit to dig one up.

Probably not many if any here unbored, but may have a number that have been used.
Do you already have the closer? Do you have a size range in mind (max existing bore)?

Got dozens of 2", IIRC.

smt

stephen thomas said:

If no one else responds, give me a bit to dig one up.

Probably not many if any here unbored, but may have a number that have been used.
Do you already have the closer? Do you have a size range in mind (max existing bore)?

Got dozens of 2", IIRC.

smt

Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply. Anything under 2.25" (dia.)and .200 deep would be perfect .. if it's been machined As for the closer, I would also need one.

Thanks !!!!!

pete

The 4C closers, like the lathe spindles are made in a choice of threaded (1-5/8-10) or tapered, so you need to say what you want. Hardinge will make you one of either type for $499.50. The 3" step chuck (it is not called a collet) is $328.50, also made to order.

Old ones are rare. I have some 4C stuff, but no 3" step chucks or 3" closers. I do have an unused 2" step chuck, which can be used without a closer.

https://shophardinge.com/categories.aspx?catid=349

Larry

L Vanice said:

The 4C closers, like the lathe spindles are made in a choice of threaded (1-5/8-10) or tapered, so you need to say what you want. Hardinge will make you one of either type for $499.50. The 3" step chuck (it is not called a collet) is $328.50, also made to order.

Old ones are rare. I have some 4C stuff, but no 3" step chucks or 3" closers. I do have an unused 2" step chuck, which can be used without a closer.

https://shophardinge.com/categories.aspx?catid=349

Larry

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info, Larry. I looked at those "chucks" and the cost for those are somewhere near 6 times what I paid for the mill...lol

The mill is going to be used for one thing, polishing pulleys for a product that I make. The pulleys are 2.250" in diameter. I currently do this on my old logan lathe, with a 6" 3 jaw chuck. But, on a few occasions, I have been whacked on the the knuckles by the jaw on the chuck...it must be this old age thing I figured maybe a nice round 4C chuck would be kinder to my knuckles

Thanks!!!!

pete

My BB4 mill has a plain cylindrical spindle nose, so the tapered and threaded 3" 4C step chuck closers for lathes will not work. The Hardinge 3" 4C step chucks will not work without a closer.

Maybe what you need is a 5C spindle speed lathe, like a Hardinge HSL.

Larry

Sorry, kind of dropped the ball with holiday stuff.

Will definitely go check after late lunch right now and report this evening
I've got a couple file drawers full, but it "ain't pretty". Some (make that most) of the closers have been attacked in the past with pipe wrenches. slip joint pliers, and beat with punches.


As Larry noted, the closers come threaded or taper.
You need to say what you need.
I have some threaded. I do not have any taper.
All my closers are for Hardinge specific spindles.

smt

As mentioned well used, not to say abused.

However, if one of the closers works for you, it is not much of a problem to find a collet that with a bit of machining will serve what you describe.

The left most, or bottom-most is slightly larger overall than the others. Same taper and apparently same size. One in the middle seems the better closer, but it does have rust pitting in one area (shown). One on right is hardened, not for sale at the moment. The other 2 are "hard" but don't seem to be hardened to the extent a modern closer is. The one on the left or bottom may even be CI. Maybe Larry can comment? Leftmost has the most external abuse as well, but there is plenty of meat in it.

$45 for either the left or middle closer.

Can do more thorough photos measurement if you are actually interested in one.

3 drawers of collets, and not much that makes your spec, lol.



Prices as marked, the un-marked collets are $15 each.



You can see in the background that some enterprising operators made pie jaws for the 2" size (which are actually 2-3/8" OD at the rim) & used them with 2" closers.

Note that all of these have been skimmed in the past (faces)



The bottom-most collet above is the way many of the stock (full thickness) collets came, with a flange. None of the full thickness collets on hand here have bores less than about 2.5"

This is where the thinnest seats.



This is where the thickest of the available collets with less than 2" bore sets.
(But notice that if you skim off the oversize bore above it, it will be about the same depth as the thinner collet)



Obviously not showpieces but enough meat to work with.

smt

Stephen, Thank you so much for the effort !!!! Thanks to the valued info given to me about the BB4 spindle, I'm going a different route. Again thank you ...also have a Merry Christmas and a wonderful New Year!!!!


pete

No problem.

4c system had nearly as much range as 5c eventually devloped over the years, but some solutions seem convoluted.
There were deep series, and closers here go up to 6" (6-1/4" face on the collet)

In taking photos, I was reminded how "differently" the original 4c spindle expansion mandrels were contrived. The unit screws onto the nose of the lathe, like a chuck or closer would. Then various slender screws with various size taper heads (depending on size of intended spigot) go down the center, and have a short section of threaded 4c collet end threaded on to them. The lever closer pulls on that to actuate the expander. There's a very thin pin out the side of the long screw just behind the head. It slides in one of the collet slots to keep the screw from rotating when the collet is opened and shut. In some ways in may be a better solution (more rigidly centralized body), but it is not as convenient to set up and would seem to be more expensive in modern times. I use them & have about a dozen, including at least one that was never used.



4c stuff is essentially superseded & fading from the landscape as old shops close and the kids sell off grandpa's hoard; probably much of it to the landfill since few lathes use it. But I did not realize it was as rare as Larry notes. Then again, I'm 2 miles from the factory and at the south center of their prime distribution area. With Buffalo (auto, aircraft, marine), Rochester (Eastman Kodak, Xerox, others), Syracuse (Trane, Oneida, many others), to some extent Albany and Utica arrayed above, down to Long Island (center of aircraft manufacture in the US until after WW2), the former powerhouse manufacturing center of NYC, and back to Binghamton with IBM; Hardinge almost didn't even need to sell out of state in the halcyon days. Elmira alone had a herd of manufacturers that made small parts (Typewriters, e.g.) in the day. Guns, aircraft, and other such were made in Ithaca. etc. etc.

smt

"...But I did not realize it was as rare as Larry notes..."

That is because you have all of it in your drawers. I have been looking for about 45 years, but don't really need 4C lathe stuff anymore.

My first Hardinge item was a Cataract 47 lathe, just the bed, head and chasing attachment. No draw bar, slide rest or tailstock. I did not even know what a 4C collet was back then. I had no trouble eventually getting a set of 4C collets by 64ths and some other stuff, but still only have one step chuck and no closers. I even had to make my first 4C drawbar from solid bar with a plastic caster wheel for a knob and a Torrington needle thrust bearing. I adapted a new Myford tailstock, slide rest and steady rest to the lathe. Then I got 5C Hardinge lathes and put all the 4C stuff away, except for the collets for use in the Hardinge BB4 mill and indexing heads.

Larry

My first actual lathe was a yard sale 49....it came with everything including the chaser rig, hobs, & gears.
It sure was a step up from single point threading, including acme, on a mill-drill.
The basic collet set (besides step closers, expanders, and such) was only full 16ths and most 32'nds. Never looked for 64ths.

I too, prefer the 5c headstocks. But have a couple 4c lathes stuffed here and there in parts. The original is still set up and used at least weekly. It just won't pass a 1" bar or pull quite as heavy a cut (the flat belt objects) as the 5c machines on steel cabinets. Not really a collector, I won't buy plain bearing stuff, nor -7" swing lathes.

I have never (yet )seen a taper nose 4c spindle or tooling, though. Not many 4c threaded scroll chucks, and never a threaded 4 jaw in that size either. Oddly, I have some adapters for the threaded collet ends that will use 4c step/clutch collets in 5c closers, but that is a bit pointless. Though maybe not, since there's a lot of cheap large diameter collets on hand. They might be shop made, and have a tab washer to keep them from rotating after installation.

smt

stephen thomas said:

My first actual lathe was a yard sale 49....it came with everything including the chaser rig, hobs, & gears.
It sure was a step up from single point threading, including acme, on a mill-drill.
The basic collet set (besides step closers, expanders, and such) was only full 16ths and most 32'nds. Never looked for 64ths.

I too, prefer the 5c headstocks. But have a couple 4c lathes stuffed here and there in parts. The original is still set up and used at least weekly. It just won't pass a 1" bar or pull quite as heavy a cut (the flat belt objects) as the 5c machines on steel cabinets. Not really a collector, I won't buy plain bearing stuff, nor -7" swing lathes.

I have never (yet )seen a taper nose 4c spindle or tooling, though. Not many 4c threaded scroll chucks, and never a threaded 4 jaw in that size either. Oddly, I have some adapters for the threaded collet ends that will use 4c step/clutch collets in 5c closers, but that is a bit pointless. Though maybe not, since there's a lot of cheap large diameter collets on hand. They might be shop made, and have a tab washer to keep them from rotating after installation.

smt

Click to expand...

kind of interested in learning a little more about your 4C collet collection, a few months ago picked up a South Bend 9 lathe, it came with a 4C collet speed chuck, now i am looking to see what all might be available to go with it.