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New Machine Day...Again - Another New Toyoda

SteveinAZ

Stainless
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Location
Snowy Arizona
Well, I have been a bit mute on the whole situation with our new Toyoda BM1400, but it's finally time to spill the beans.

As posted earlier, you guys saw the installed machine...but what you could not have seen was the rust that was on the Z ways...both sides, front face and the back where the gibbs live. :eek:

Here's what happened - Toyoda/Awea subs out the packaging (as do many other MTB's) of the machines after they run all their tests and give it their okie-dokie. Here's where things went a bit off...the packagers did not pack it properly. As it crossed the pond, it must have taken a drink of sea water, slipped right down the column and got trapped in between the ways and the column and began it's ugly thing.

So...mistakes happen, but how the problems are handled are what makes things right or wrong. The Methods Machine service tech was the one to point out the problems late one afternoon during installation. A quick phone call, and the Methods Service Manager and Salesman (their GM was out of the country or he would have been there too) were set to meet with the tech and myself first thing the next morning. After their inspection and confirmation of the rust pitting on the column, the sales guy excuses himself and is on the phone, steps outside, returns in 5-6 minutes. In the few minutes he had spoken to whoever can make a decision in that short of time, and says Toyoda will replace the machine as soon as possible.

So what you see in the pics is how Methods Machine and Toyoda handles it. They let us run the existing machine as we had a backlog of work for it when it showed up, then they send a new machine, swap it out and we are back in business.

All told, this was not an inexpensive situation, we lost a week of use, but Methods and Toyoda are out a bunch of cash. The machine is wide...about 14' on the trailer, so wide load permits are required from California to Arizona, the riggers had a two or three crews at the shop all day to do the swap, and Methods has had a couple of service techs on site for three days to prep the old, and install the new.

Would the rusty column really cause problems??? Well, really can't say, but I didn't really want to accept it this way when we are buying a new machine. I guess you could have said the ways were "scraped" in.... Anyway, the Methods Machine crowd did a great job...they could have even hid the issue in the first place, but they brought it up, and Toyoda owned up to it 100%.

The only negative in the whole thing was they didn't want to give us a free Supersize upgrade to a BM1600 for our troubles.:( I guess another $25k loss on top of the tens of thousands of was a bit tough to swallow. Yes, it probably is tens of thousands of dollars...rigging and shipping alone is probably close to $10k for the swap, Methods service techs will have put in about ~60 hours when the dust settles, then they have to do something with the "old" one. A buddy of mine has a $5,000 standing offer for it...don't think they'll bite though.

A few notes for the pics...
Nicer packaging this time...tarped over the crate, plus inner tarp. BTW, that's a 10' ladder he's on, and a 15k Hyster sitting there.
Notice the size of the steering wheel on the 36k Hyster for size relationship - who ever said size doesn't count was sorely mistaken. :D
Too bad they weren't both going IN the shop instead of one out, one in.
Had to show the toy changer (removed to get the machine thru the little door). 40 pockets for Cat 50...loading all of them at one time gets timesome!

Steve
 

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Steve,
That's good news the way the handled it but bad that you lost some $$ on jobs. Guess it could have been much worse, like some protracted legal stalemate over replacing the machine.
There are a lot of fine machines on the market but that's only half of it. I remember when Mazak was on a roll in this area back in the late nineties. They sold a lot of fine machines but did not hire or train any new service techs. My Mazak customers with problems told me they had to wait 3-4 weeks for a tech.
That's why I tell newbies to contact owners in their area and check out the dealer and his service.
Sounds like your guys did about as well as they could have, given the circumstances.
BTW, you-know-who dropped the ball on the threading inserts, I only recv'd one profile style. Found out late Fiday. You will have the order complete by Tues.
C.
 
Glad this nightmare scenario was handled with professionalism, and respect for the customer. Which is becoming rare these days.

If Toyoda is savy, they would send another column/head assembly over from Taiwan, replace the rusted column and head here in the states, and sell the original machine as a demo, for about 75% the cost of new.
 
So how does the new Toyoda machines perform. I saw one at the North Carolina show last year, it looked very well built and a solid machine.
 
Well, many have asked about the performance of the the BM series, but I cannot honestly say how well it's doing as the only work we have run on it has been pretty whimpy. A little milling with small step overs and docs, so can't really comment yet...soon though as we have a bunch of work lined up to put across it.

The only thing we have run with great success and is documentable has been some drilling...in a previous life I had developed production standards for a Komet Quatron drill: 175-200 holes per insert edge with the given material and s/f's on a Haas 40 taper VF machine. We ran the same process and same cut parameters on the Toy and after 550 holes, the inserts look new...absolutely no land wear and I wouldn't be surprised to get another 500 holes on the corners based on what the inserts look like right now.:D Really didn't think a machine would make that much difference on drill insert life, but maybe it does?:skep: BTW, both machines have TSC at running at 300 psi, so that is a constant on either machine.

Awhile back there was some discussion on a thread as to rapid travels speeds on the Toyodas...this one does NOT run as advertised (according to the control read out). It is not 945 in/min in the X & Y...it's 1,180 in/min!:D, but Z is 708 in/min as advertised. Yeh, it's not much different, but if you leave the tool change macro alone, which sends X and Y to their home positions before doing the tool change (pressing the block delete button disables that), it will make some difference as the thing still looks as if it's crawling along since there's a lot of real estate to move. Combined X-Y rapids are in the 1,669 in/min range...still not a like super fast Mazak, Robo Drill, Makino or Matsuura (or many others out there), but pretty darn good for a big 'ol box way machine.

More to come later... Steve
 
Glad this nightmare scenario was handled with professionalism, and respect for the customer. Which is becoming rare these days.

If Toyoda is savy, they would send another column/head assembly over from Taiwan, replace the rusted column and head here in the states, and sell the original machine as a demo, for about 75% the cost of new.



Taiwan? :confused:



---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Nobody gunna touch my Taiwan question?

These are made in J A Pan aint they?


-------------

28 grams of prevention is werth .45 kg of cure.
Ox
 
Nobody gunna touch my Taiwan question?

These are made in J A Pan aint they?


-------------

28 grams of prevention is werth .45 kg of cure.
Ox

Made by Awea of Taiwan under Toyoda's specs. Applies to all VMCs and bridge mills.
 








 
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