What's new
What's new

3 phase VFD on Single Phase - Correcting Phase Faults

StoneMachines

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Location
Ottawa,ON,Canada
Some used ABB 3 phase VFDs have come up for sale that seem like they might meet my requirements (my motors are 575v 10hp,2hp,2hp). After looking over the user manual (available here) I have two questions:

1 - I'll be supplying the VFD from residential 230v single phase, stepped up to 575v. The VFDs are rated for 575v 3 phase input. This fault caught my eye:

22 SUPPLY PHASE Ripple voltage in the DC link is too high.
Check for and correct:
• missing mains phase
• blown fuse.

The closest setting I found to ignore this fault was:
3023 WIRING FAULT 0=DISABLE, 1=ENABLE
Defines the drive response to cross wiring faults and to earth faults
detected when the drive is NOT running. When the drive is not running,
it monitors for:
• Improper connections of input power to the drive output (the drive can
display fault 35, OUTP WIRING if improper connections are detected).
• Earth faults (the drive can display fault 16, EARTH FAULT if an earth
fault is detected). Also, see parameter 3017 EARTH FAULT.
Note: Disabling wiring fault (earth fault) may void the warranty.
0 = DISABLE – No response to either of the above monitoring results.
1 = ENABLE – Displays a fault when this monitoring detects problems

But I don't think that would do it. Does anyone have any experience using VFDs that have input phase detection and feeding them single phase?

2 - This VFD is marketed toward HVAC users for fan/pump control and has a bunch of built in settings to help with setting up for this and the associated energy savings. However I'm pretty sure my requirements (VFD powering motor on saw) that I would want a VFD that can supply a constant torque load. Which after reading this thread I think I understand that really as long as the VFD can supply the rated amps for the motor at all speeds I should be OK (and I up size the VFD for feeding it single phase power).

Reading the manual I found the following parameter:
2601 FLUX OPT ENABLE 0=OFF, 1=ON
Changes the magnitude of the flux depending on the actual load. Flux
Optimization can reduce the total energy consumption and noise, and it
should be enabled for drives that usually operate below nominal load.
0 = OFF – Disables the feature.
1 = ON – Enables the feature.

I assume if I wanted constant torque below nameplate RPM I would want this off?

Under ratings the manual has:
Nominal rating (10% overload capability)
I2N continuous rms current. 10% overload is allowed for one
minute every ten minutes through the whole speed
range.
PN typical motor power. The kilowatt power ratings apply to
most IEC, 4-pole motors. The horsepower ratings apply
to most 4-pole NEMA motors.

So no reason it wouldn't supply rated current through all speeds?

Thanks
Greg.
 
1) some 3ph drives will not turn on if 3 ph is not supplied. some will. i do not know if abb will or not. no, the variable u mention is not going to help this. some have reported success faking the 3ph monitor inside some drives with a motor capacitor between one of the input 1ph legs and the 3rd unused one. again, no guarantee it will work on UR picked drive.

2) yes, u would want off. but keep in mind a lot of fan use vfds have derated current capacity below base speed and so will never be able to run full rated torque as expected for a spindle type application. this parameter certainly seems to suggest this drive can run full current below base speed but again no guarantee from me as i dont know it intimately.
 
Some drives just want to see voltage on all three, otehrs actually check phase, in which case there may be no good way to fool them.

if they just want voltage, that's pretty easy
 
This is an ABB...

You noted that this is an ABB drive...

The first fault disabling feature MAY clear some or all of the faults. The real question is wether it'll accept that parameter as a method to ignore ripple faults... The really big drives I used to teach on were half-and-half on that.

I say try it, and see what the result is (you won't hurt anything by doing so, it'll either cure it, or it won't).

IF it still comes up with a DC Link Ripple fault, try using the capacitor-trick, as that MAY reduce ripple a bit as a side-effect.

If not, you're probably stuck. Report back with the results, and in the meantime, mebbie someone else that knows your specific drive will chime in.
 
The user manual is specific about inputs. For your high voltage requirement the input is specified to be 3 phase only.
If I were you contact ABB support and find out if you can use single phase stepped up with a transformer. BTW,
that drive enclosure looks like it came off the set from Star Wars.
 
One more thing..... Some drives give access to the DC bus. This is generally if they have a "common bus" option, where they get DC from a rectifier or a "bidirectional" interface unit.

If yours does, then it may be possible to reduce the problem by connecting a suitable capacitor array to the bus connections (ask here, I'd say, before connecting). That will reduce ripple.

And, it may be possible to bypass the inputs altogether, and provide DC to the bus from an external rectifier. That would be the purpose of having settings that defeat the input checkers, since obviously if DC is supplied, no input phases etc are available..

An external rectifier can also be sized to avoid any need for derating on accoundt of input diodes, etc.

Both solutions are a bit drastic, but can and do work where applicable. Try settings and so forth first.
 
OK thanks for the replies. These units are for sale fairly far from where I live. I have to make a special trip to pick them up, I'm going that way to pick up a 15KVA single phase 660v/240v transformer. So if I can work out a deal I'll pick one or two up. But right now the asking price is a bit high for "it may work". These ones also have the integrated disconnect. Which at first sounded good, that way I wouldn't need to wire in a disconnect between the transformer and the VFD, but it also acts as a bypass. So hopefully I can defeat the bypass, as I wouldn't want to accidentally connect the motor directly to single phase. I'm hoping at the worse I can just remove the disconnect/bypass.

thanks
 
The bypass units are generally made for HVAC, and ONLY for US market.

They are intended so that a building will still get ventilated etc even if the drive fails.... if only at max speed, it's better than nothing.

Drives are generally normal, may actually have more features, internal PID loops, etc, most of which you likely won't need.

usually you can just remove the connections to the bypass contactor, and you may get an extra contactor or two out of the deal. Others are manual, with somewhat hokey-looking (but effective) linkages between manual switches in some cases.
 
THis is not for ABB, but it may apply.

Three phase input PowerFlex 4/40 drives, like other diode front end AC drives, can be operated with single phase input power, providing the drive is derated to 35% of three phase rated output current rating. When running single phase, derate by 65% of the drives three phase nominal value. An example would be a 208 amp three phase drive x .35 derate = 72.8 single phase full rating amps.

It is important to apply the derate, because of the built-in pseudo "phase-loss" protection in the drive. The PowerFlex 4/40 drives monitor the DC bus ripple. If a phase is lost and the output current is high, the bus ripple will be detected and cause a Power Loss fault (F03). The drive output current must be high for a period of time (typically, a couple of minutes) before the fault occurs. If the current is 35% or lower, the drive will continue to run without faulting. Single phase power can be wired to any of the 2 input terminals, R, S, and T on the PowerFlex 4/40 Drives
 
Well so far the person with the ABB VFDs has ignored my attempts at contacting them. So I checked out ebay and found this:
impluseGseries2VFD.jpg

A Magnetek IMPULSE G+ Series 2 20HP VFD, unused. It was advertised for $675. I contacted the seller and they said they have had it for 18 months, purchased as part of a lot of items at an auction.

Since the capacitors may be bad (I sent a note to this effect) I offered $100 plus shipping and they accepted, so for $120 we'll see if it works out. Looking at the listing history they had it on ebay for almost a year. The manual has this info on reconditioning the drive:
VFDLongTermStorage.jpg

I plan to hook it up to 120, 240, and finally 575 (all single phase). Hopefully those steps are not too big.

The manual indicates that input phase loss detection can be disabled, but only if a later software revision is running on the drive. I'm hoping that it has the later version.

inputphaseloss.jpg

Has some neat features as it is targeted at overhead crane control. 150% rated amps for 1 minute, sensorless vector, 150hz max. Hopefully it works out.
 








 
Back
Top