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30hp digital phase perfect

diyengineer253

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 30, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
Hello,
I have a 30hp phase perfect. I have a 200amp panel, 240v (single phase) in the shop. What's the proper breaker to utilize it's capacity? What happens if they don't sell a large enough breaker? (From what I've seen 125 is the limit??) Thanks.
 
Hello,
I have a 30hp phase perfect. I have a 200amp panel, 240v (single phase) in the shop. What's the proper breaker to utilize it's capacity? What happens if they don't sell a large enough breaker? (From what I've seen 125 is the limit??) Thanks.

Phase Technologies tell you all that in their manual. If it is lost, download a new one.

If they call for a larger fuse or breaker than your load center can support, either trade-down for a lesser Phase-Perfect, or engage an electrician to arrange a quote for a supplemental load center (probable) or even a higher capacity utility service (unlikely).

(S)He will know which one is needed.

Bill
 
Thanks bill. Didn't even think of going to a larger load center. I do remember PP allowed the use of a smaller breaker, and thy had a table that de-rated the overall output. I'll DL the new manual and give it a look over.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Thanks bill. Didn't even think of going to a larger load center. I do remember PP allowed the use of a smaller breaker, and thy had a table that de-rated the overall output. I'll DL the new manual and give it a look over.

I have had to add several. "Main Lug" Square-D QO boxes, meant for 8 to 12 single breakers, half that with 240's, and cheap enough at Big Box.

Your one might want inclusion of a fused disconnect. A "sparks" current with local codes can tell if one box will cover both needs or not, and which one.

Might as well pay him to do it and get a proper permit and inspection sign-off into the deal.

A 30 HP P-P is not to be lightly DIY trifled with, sans county sticker even if one knows how.

Bill
 
That much converter is going to be about 25 kW to 30 kW, depending on how you figure it. I can say kW, because the PP has an input power factor correction circuit, and should draw power as a nearly resistive load.

So at 240V, that is 125A Generally well within what can be supplied, because nearly any service is rated for 200A, even a house service.

BUT, your box is not the only limit... Assuming you ever actually DRAW 30 kW, the pole transformer may, or may not, be good for it. The power company often applies a correction , or "diversity" factor, that takes account of the "usual" loads for the type of service you have. Then they put up a transformer that serves THAT assumed load. They KNOW it will be overloaded part of the time, but they figure it's cheaper not to put up one that serves the maximum load, because it rarely occurs. Same with the wires to connect it to you, they are usually sized for "average" loads..

They are betting on the average loads, and figure the equipment will not overheat in the short time a maximum load is applied

So then you come along, hang another up to 30kW on their line, and fry the transformer, maybe.
 
That much converter is going to be about 25 kW to 30 kW, depending on how you figure it. I can say kW, because the PP has an input power factor correction circuit, and should draw power as a nearly resistive load.

So at 240V, that is 125A Generally well within what can be supplied, because nearly any service is rated for 200A, even a house service.

BUT, your box is not the only limit... Assuming you ever actually DRAW 30 kW, the pole transformer may, or may not, be good for it. The power company often applies a correction , or "diversity" factor, that takes account of the "usual" loads for the type of service you have. Then they put up a transformer that serves THAT assumed load. They KNOW it will be overloaded part of the time, but they figure it's cheaper not to put up one that serves the maximum load, because it rarely occurs. Same with the wires to connect it to you, they are usually sized for "average" loads..

They are betting on the average loads, and figure the equipment will not overheat in the short time a maximum load is applied

So then you come along, hang another up to 30kW on their line, and fry the transformer, maybe.

Or hopefully just trip a protective device.

Utility companies are 'allowed' to do that, because of who they are and where they sit in the Grand Distribution scheme. Most will be cognizant of a greater need to non-destructively protect an intentionally undersized pole or vault pig when they do so.

Beyond our control, and usually also beyond our sight. I bring that up because on OUR side of their Service Entrance, we are held to a less flexible standard.

If your Phase Perfect is nameplated for "X" then at least the conductors to it need to be rated per Code for that or better. You may chose a breaker of equal or lesser capacity, just not greater. Even so, breakers do not actually have infinite life spans, ergo make a poor traffic cop if you are going to overcook your original plan very often.

That you 'intend' to operate a 30 HP unit at only 10 HP, load-side? Not of interest to the authority as to permitting lower ampacity conductors on the input.

A workaround - incorporating the P-P INTO the machine - might be within my capability for a 10 HP P-P (if rudely tedious). Less-so for a 30 HP.

You are pretty well going to have an inspection-required 'branch circuit', hence my recommendation that it be done by the book, inspected, and signed-off.

Bill
 
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That much converter is going to be about 25 kW to 30 kW, depending on how you figure it. I can say kW, because the PP has an input power factor correction circuit, and should draw power as a nearly resistive load.

So at 240V, that is 125A Generally well within what can be supplied, because nearly any service is rated for 200A, even a house service.

BUT, your box is not the only limit... Assuming you ever actually DRAW 30 kW, the pole transformer may, or may not, be good for it. The power company often applies a correction , or "diversity" factor, that takes account of the "usual" loads for the type of service you have. Then they put up a transformer that serves THAT assumed load. They KNOW it will be overloaded part of the time, but they figure it's cheaper not to put up one that serves the maximum load, because it rarely occurs. Same with the wires to connect it to you, they are usually sized for "average" loads..

They are betting on the average loads, and figure the equipment will not overheat in the short time a maximum load is applied

So then you come along, hang another up to 30kW on their line, and fry the transformer, maybe.
I'll inquire with the power company. It's just down the street, it's a small office which is nice.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 
Our 30hp is breakered at 200, book lists or at 175-200a. I believe it's 3/0 feeding it and 2ga on the output. Our breakers are a pass thru setup in an Eaton panel.
 
Our 30hp is breakered at 200, book lists or at 175-200a. I believe it's 3/0 feeding it and 2ga on the output. Our breakers are a pass thru setup in an Eaton panel.

That scales to a fit.

Manual for my 10 HP calls out a 50 A input. I'll use a QO 50 A breaker for that, but wire for 60 A, even though my max possible 3-P load is 5 HP spindle, 3/4 HP traverse, same mill.

Bill
 
Any pics to get ideas would be great. No worries if you cant. Thanks guys.
Photos?

Makers publish their panels and breaker pics online. I like Square D's QO line as value-for-money, but won't touch their cheaper line at gunpoint.

Wire?

Bought that online as 100 ft rolls so as to get the THWN-2 damp-resistant rating for the outdoor 10 KW gen set, AND in four colours instead of black only.

Otherwise, rectangular boxes and round conduit and pull-fittings all look much the same as they do on the shelves at Big Box.


Bill
 
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I believe it's an eaton load center that uses the BR style breakers. Apparently they don't sell a higher amperage breaker than 125amp, as the 150amp is only used in larger panels. I think for now I can wire it for the 125amp breaker (cheap and quick) however, what future options would I have since my current panel is not even a pass through design?
 
My P-P 380 is wired with a FUSED disconnect, 150 amp fuses. I know the fuses are not really cheap, but neither are 150 amp breakers. In running two 25 or 30 hp motors have not blown a fuse in 4 years.

on edit: And the install passed local building inspector's perusal.
 
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My P-P 380 is wired with a FUSED disconnect, 150 amp fuses. I know the fuses are not really cheap, but neither are 150 amp breakers. In running two 25 or 30 hp motors have not blown a fuse in 4 years.

on edit: And the install passed local building inspector's perusal.
I don't think I have anywhere to tap off for such a large wire to add a fused disconnect?
 








 
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