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Thread: Altivar 31 on single phase?
05-06-2011, 04:50 PM #1
Altivar 31 on single phase?
I need a VFD for my 1940 Monarch 10EE which has most of the drive system missing. I plan on using a 5hp motor driven by a 7.5 hp VFD on single phase. It will never use anywhere near the 5hp, however it's there for low speed torque. I've been offered a 7.5hp Altivar 31 for $500, which seems reasonable. Anyone know if it will run off single phase? I've seen a few threads on fooling a VFD if it won't accept single phase, but I would like to know for sure that it will work.
Or should I order the Hong Kong (chinese) 5hp VFD which says it will run off of single phase? I'm leaning towards the Altivar.
05-06-2011, 09:28 PM #2
If it's like the 21 it will run on single phase.
You set F608 to 0 for single phase, that is if it's programed like the 21.
A VFD that's supposed to run on 3 phase only, with the phase loss detection disabled, is supposed to be de-rated by 50%. So, you're supposed to use a 10hp VFD on a 5hp motor, unless it's rated for full output on single phase input. A 3phase 7.5hp VFD run on single phase, on a 5hp motor may or may not work, but it's not what's generally recommended.
There are other brand VFDs out there other than the Altivar, or some cheap no name POS. Maybe some people will chime in with their input. I don't think it matters much as long as it's a reputable manufacturer, and it has the features you want.
05-06-2011, 10:30 PM #3
As JJ said, the derate is either what the manufacturer specs for a particular drive, or 50% derate if there is no spec. The square root of 3 (phases) is 1.73, meaning you need a drive 1.73 x larger than your 5hp motor. Most users round the 1.73 up to 2.
There are a number of 10hp vector drives available today, most in the $500-$600 price point. Don't know a lot about the A31, except that they've listed that drive since 2004.
05-07-2011, 07:51 AM #4
Thanks for the responses. Don't know it it's the same as the '21, but I think they do use the same programming. As far as the derating is concerned, it will not see anything like 5hp, probably not even 2hp. This (7.5vfd/5hp motor) is one of the recommended re-drive solutions to the original 3hp DC driven form a MG unit in the lathe. It will have a 8:1 gearbox on it for the low speed side, direct drive for the high speed.
Have not had much luck locating other used drives. Ive found a few 5hp, but not rated for single phase. The offshore POS is still about 2/3 the price - I'd rather keep my money here and get something more likely to last.
05-07-2011, 08:14 AM #5
The ACTech SMVector (made in Uxbridge, Mass.) is $545.05 from Wolf Automation. Configured P/N ESV752N02TXB, which is a 10hp drive when run from 3ph, or a 5hp drive using 1ph.
If you absolutely have to have a 7.5hp drive, the SMVector ESV552N02TXB is $441.10 from the same source. Using that drive will limit maximum motor horsepower to 4hp, and I can't understand why you'd want to do that when the correct drive is only $100 more.
The Hitachi SJ700 is another popular drive, made in Japan. Price is quite a bit more at $926 for the 10hp SJ700-075LFUF2, or $762 for the 7.5hp SJ700-055LFUF2.
I have four SMVector drives & one Hitachi. Both seem comparable in quality, which is to say excellent. Wolf Automation has been the source for all my drives.
I don't think it matters much as long as it's a reputable manufacturer, and it has the features you want.
Maybe someone will comment on how the A31 compares to a newer drive. If the A31 is brand new in the box, $500 doesn't sound bad. I'd probably spend $45 more and get the 10hp SMVector, but that's just me.
Warranty on the SMVector is 2 years, warranty on the SJ700 is 1 year. Not sure about the warranty on the A31.
05-07-2011, 08:30 AM #6
sj200 is now legacy product and no longer available from factory; sj700 is not but meant now for >20hp sizes; folks are selling out their stock - u cannot buy sj200 from hitachi anymore. This does not mean it is not worth buying from a distributor who has them in stock for a good discounted price like precisionworks stated above. it is replaced with the wj200 next generation drive. I like the wj200 better because it has a cool std usb port and free neat windows software program to backup and do other things & goes upto 20hp. price is lower compared to sj200 & sj700 too. here are list prices for comparison:
sj200 pricing gone from hitachi now.
SJ700-055LFUF2 Inverter, 200-240 volt, 3 phase, 7.5 HP, 24 Amps 1156.00
SJ700-075LFUF2 Inverter, 200-240 volt, 3 phase, 10 HP, 32 Amps 1403.00
WJ200-055LF Inverter, 200 volt, 3 phase, 7.5 CT (10 VT) HP, 25.0 CT (30.0 VT) Amps 900.00
WJ200-075LF Inverter, 200 volt, 3 phase, 10 CT (15 VT) HP, 33.0 CT (40.0 VT) Amps 1100.00
05-07-2011, 09:33 AM #7
Why not buy a 50$ second hand one from ebay? Using the soft start many people are using drives smaller than the actual motor and using single phase input to boot. Don't expect an engineer or manufacturer to condone this but this is the practical machinest site!
05-07-2011, 05:57 PM #8
robvds - love to find a used cheap one, but they don't seem to be available. At least not in anything I would want to use on a 5hp motor. I expect a 2hp drive would start it, but selecting reverse most likely kick it off line.
Mike, I'm sure they're great drives, but our of my price range. Hobby use is hard to justify it.
Barry - Thanks for the price check. That is significantly better than any other price I've found. I guess I need to spend more time shopping, but Wolf Automation is now in my favourites list. I'll probably be calling them Monday to see if the free shipping applies to Canada too. Appreciate your help,
05-07-2011, 08:38 PM #9
I have found the larger drives to be cheaper on ebay especially if you can run your motor on 460 instead of 230. I have won a 20 hp NIB for 20$ but the shipping was nearly 40$. Are you searching properly on ebay.com not .ca?