Big news for the shop 3 phase power install

roll-a-leblond · Nov 4, 2016

After having my 7.5 hp
3 phase converter stop working on me ,and pricing a new 20hp converter, I called entergy to see what 3 phase service would cost to come the 100 yards from the road.

A engineer from the power company came out to see what could be done.

He calculated 76hp worth of 3 phase and 20hp single phase machines

So I asked how much am I looking at and he says they are coming to install it free of charge(dad worked for entergy for 30 years)

That's a big hell ya!!!!!

roll-a-leblond · Nov 4, 2016

Ment to post this in general thank you for moving

Newman109 · Nov 4, 2016

roll-a-leblond said:
After having my 7.5 hp
3 phase converter stop working on me ,and pricing a new 20hp converter, I called entergy to see what 3 phase service would cost to come the 100 yards from the road.

A engineer from the power company came out to see what could be done.

He calculated 76hp worth of 3 phase and 20hp single phase machines

So I asked how much am I looking at and he says they are coming to install it free of charge(dad worked for entergy for 30 years)

That's a big hell ya!!!!!

Don't bother playing the lottery anymore. You used all of your luck up on your 3 phase installation. Where I am, if you could qualify, the power company would probably start at $20K to haul in 3 phase.

My machinist friend who works out of his home got 3 phase for free.......in 1980. That's not happening anymore.

Jraef · Nov 4, 2016

Now the bad news...

When they install your "free" upgrade, you will get another meter next to your kWh meter, which measures DEMAND. They will bill you for "peak demand" as a MULTIPLE of your basic rate every time you exceed the demand they set aside for you, measured in a sliding 15-30 minute window.

Kart21 · Nov 4, 2016

Nice!!!

Better watch that demand meter, it WILL burn you.
I know now....

jakefreese · Nov 4, 2016

Yeah you won the lottery there. Here it's about 10k for them to drop a service, and that's when I worked for them!! I got a price recently for them to upgrade my pole mount transformer to a 50kva, underground 50' away, they were going to have to replace the pole. It was over $11k.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Chip Chester · Nov 4, 2016

Yeah, you're the exception to the $1K per linear yard pricing of every other thread here for the past ten years. Next you're going to tell us you're in the final "Google fiber to the home" city.

Chip

roll-a-leblond · Nov 4, 2016

I'm a small one - two man show, I may have 3 or 4 machines going at once max.

Hopefully that's well below the demand

We shall see, I don't use much power, just nice to finally have the real thing.

I was expecting to pay $3-5k to get it, but lucked out on a free install.

Oldwrench · Nov 4, 2016

Good for you! Maybe somebody at the power company figured out there were energy savings to be had, like converting to LEDs. Life is gonna much easier.

swatkins · Nov 4, 2016

Since you just saved a ton of money on your power, and have real power now, You should hook up a trailer and come over here and get this Leblond Raised 25" heavy duty. Probably spin around 30 inches and running now.

I almost afraid to ask what my power company would charge me to run the lines into the shop, 1/4 mile away. I have 75 HP sitting here so it would be feasible for them...

Ziggy2 · Nov 4, 2016

roll-a-leblond said:
I'm a small one - two man show, I may have 3 or 4 machines going at once max.

Hopefully that's well below the demand

We shall see, I don't use much power, just nice to finally have the real thing.

I was expecting to pay $3-5k to get it, but lucked out on a free install.

The demand is based on true max demand. There is no threshold to stay under.

The demand rating is the max peak that occurs over a time period multiplied by so many $.01 per kilowatt of demand.

The real kicker is that it can often be the larger portion of the bill.

Be prepared for an education in how much 3ph power actually costs.

Matt Matt · Nov 5, 2016

I would like to suggest nothing is given away for free.

R1/residential l metre applies discounts during peak demands.
As soon as you go to industrial, three-phase there is usually 2 metres. Or sometimes an industrial smart meter. Both consumption and reactive current is measured and billing is adjusted. If you have a 7am to 7pm business you will reap more rewards on residential kickbacks. If your shop is running 7 PM to 7 AM on residential you will receive a 50% reduction. Under industrial if you over run your peak there is usually penalties to be paid.

Enjoy your three phase as usually a grid compensation has been worked in. Three-phase distribution does not usually apply to residential discount consumption. In the end, it might cost you a little bit more. But,... you won't have the headache of RPCs anymore.

I'd be interested in seeing what the contract specifies.

JST · Nov 5, 2016

Here is a somewhat farm-oriented explanation of demand charges by one utility.

https://www.northwesternenergy.com/docs/default-source/documents/E-Programs/E-demandcharges.pdf

ramsay1 · Nov 5, 2016

roll-a-leblond said:
After having my 7.5 hp
3 phase converter stop working on me ,and pricing a new 20hp converter, I called entergy to see what 3 phase service would cost to come the 100 yards from the road.

A engineer from the power company came out to see what could be done.

He calculated 76hp worth of 3 phase and 20hp single phase machines

So I asked how much am I looking at and he says they are coming to install it free of charge(dad worked for entergy for 30 years)

That's a big hell ya!!!!!

Fifteen years ago they charged me 1000 bucks to put the third leg transformer and the main transformer on another pole across the street from my shop.. I live fifty yards from an Entergy sub station.. They said my demand would not be high enough to get it free...I did get lucky though as I have 50 hp three phase in my shop from a secondary meter so the minimum is much lower than commercial...

roll-a-leblond · Nov 5, 2016

Thanks JST and Matt Matt on the explanation and usage of the three-phase power .

Ramsay that was a good price u got to get power brought in.

Swatkins....u must have seen my want ad in the classifieds for a
18-20" American pacemaker lol

I would get the big leblond 25 but it's bed is very short. The 17 I'm thinking about,it's about what i need.

hanermo · Nov 5, 2016

Fwiw..
costs vary greatly around the world.

In many countries 3-phase installs, residential, are free, and they have to do it, regardless.
Also, mostly, in the EU, everyone has 3-phase already, by default.
Mostly because the 3-phase lines are already at curb, so its nearly free, and its more efficient.

But where they are not mandated (Spain, Finland, others, well...)
A 15 m install of new 35 kW service can be 20-40k$.
Add 15k for redoing all your internal electrical service, mandated, to new expensive halogen-free wiring.

I have 13kW 3-phase, relatively expensive.
Any expansion would be new wiring etc. 10k$+ at trade wholesale cost.

roll-a-leblond · Nov 5, 2016

Just to clarify, I already had 200amp 240v single phase , and the new service is 200amp 240v 3 phase.

No 480v.

ramsay1 · Nov 5, 2016

roll-a-leblond said:
Just to clarify, I already had 200amp 240v single phase , and the new service is 200amp 240v 3 phase.

No 480v.

That's what I had.. Same transformer used to power my shop and two houses on single phase.. The third leg was added requiring another transformer.. That is a good way to go if you run any motors which are single phase 220.. Not as well balanced as 120-208 for three phase but better where 220 single phase is required.. I think they call that "open delta".. I think the efficiency is not quite as good as 120-208 but it has its advantages as well...Entergy told me if I needed more HP later on they would change to a bigger third leg transformer.. Ramsay 1

JST · Nov 5, 2016

roll-a-leblond said:
Just to clarify, I already had 200amp 240v single phase , and the new service is 200amp 240v 3 phase.

No 480v.

Must be wild leg service. Getting 240 is not as common anymore, since corner-grounded 240 is just about never installed, and high leg is only done when it can be done by adding a wire to the single-phase, which they may have done for you.

Otherwise you get 208 wye.

Modelman · Nov 5, 2016

JST said:
Must be wild leg service. Getting 240 is not as common anymore, since corner-grounded 240 is just about never installed, and high leg is only done when it can be done by adding a wire to the single-phase, which they may have done for you.

Otherwise you get 208 wye.

Depends on the utility. I had no problem getting a "high leg delta" service (admittedly over twenty years ago, now). I simply showed them the planned motor loads; three phase machines with motors NOT rated for 208V.

Which brings up a point I've wondered about every time I read a post here about how much it is going to cost to get three phase brought in... Mine was free. I (we) bought a building with commercial zoning that had NO existing service (building was previously fed from part of a larger plant, with the sale there was no longer common ownership). I checked with the Illinois Commerce Commission (who regulates utilities here) and was told since I had a legitimate need for three phase power, ComEd was required to provided it, AT NO COST, provided it did not require more than two poles and three spans of wire to do so. ComEd came out and planted a "mid (span) pole" in their line across the street to make the junction, and a pole on our property to hang the transformers. Then they told me my electrician had to bring the wire to the pole... so it was back on the phone to the Commerce Commission. Ended up ComEd provided the secondary to my weather head for the cost of the wire, and made the connections for free.

Now I realize that someone who wants three phase in their residential garage for their hobby shop is not going to get this sort of consideration, but if you are a business owner, and have a legitimate need, call your state regulatory agency and find out exactly what the utility is required, by law, to provide.

Dennis

Big news for the shop 3 phase power install

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