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I am new to this Forum and need some help wiring a single phase drum switch on Lathe

Gunron

Plastic
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
I just acquired a Clausing 6316 lathe and during the delivery the wirers to the drum switch were removed. I have tried to reconnect with no luck. The motor is a Dayton 1 HP single phase with low or high voltage, it was running on high being 230v when I bought it and plan to leave it 230v. All the wiring diagrams I have seen posted have a T4 lead and my motor doesn't. There are no colors just metal numbered tags as follows 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, and 8. The 7 is taped off and the rest have puzzled. I have a Furnas R44 drum switch. Any help would be great.
 
You would need to include a connection diagram of your motor to be sure, but here is a standard connection diagram for a similar motor.
Grizzly120-230RevDrumSw.jpg

SAF Ω
 
I am not sure how to attach a picture, Wires for 230v 1,2,3,5,6,7,8. With 2, 3 and 8 taped together, 5 and 1 taped together. Switch 5 and 8 to reverse. The drawing you send has a T4 wire and no T6.
 
You'll need to verify what connections are made in the drum switch in the Fwd and Rev positions - not all drum switches are the same. For example, compare the switch diagram for a Dayton 2X440 that I've attached with the drawing SAF attached to an earlier reply.

Dayton_2X440.jpg
 
SAF and Don, Thanks for taking the time to help me on this wiring issue.
The lathe worked fine before the wirers were disconnected, so I believe I have the correct Drum Furnas R44. I may have only run it in forward, I don't know for sure.
The motor cover has the wires listed and the wirers are all tagged with numbers. My problem is the motor doesn't have a wire labeled 4 and I have a wire labeled 6. ALL of the sketches or drawings I have seen have a 4 wire and no 6 wire.
20180416_161321.jpg
 
I figured out how to add pictures:)
Dayton motor.jpgDrum switch.jpgMotor current Wires.jpg

I hope this helps, Thanks
 
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Use the diagram I posted, use your #6 for the #4 in the drawing.
Leave #7 taped off as in the motor diagram, it's part of the internal thermal protection, that is not used on the 230V connection.
#5 & 8 are the start winding, they can be connected either way, as in my drawing, or swapped as shown on the motor diagram. When they are swapped. it just changes the motor start direction.

Make a new drawing and attach to your machine for reference, next time it gets moved.

SAF Ω
 
SAF,
Thanks for your response and info, I will give it a try when I get home tonight and let you know the outcome.

Also that is great advice, I will do that.

Sad thing about that is all they needed to do is remove the 2 screws holding the drum switch in place.

Thanks Gunron
 
SAF,
Thanks for your response and info, I will give it a try when I get home tonight and let you know the outcome.

Also that is great advice, I will do that.

Sad thing about that is all they needed to do is remove the 2 screws holding the drum switch in place.

Thanks Gunron

SAF,
I did what you said per that sketch and replaced T4 with T6. I put it in forward and sparks flow. I flipped it off. Back to the drawing board.
I stripped out all the wires, they were a mess anyways and running new wires from power switch to the Drum switch to the motor.
What really puzzles me is why did the Lathe run before with only T2, T3 connected and there were 2 wires on position/post 1 on the drum switch. Post 3 and 5 were not jumped together and post 1 wasn't used in your sketch.
Also the drum switch logic is different making me think it is setup for 110v.
Really I am at a loss on this. I will keep posted as I haven't given up yet.
Gunron
 
I will keep posted as I haven't given up yet.
In post #5 of this thread you posted a photo of part of a wiring diagram. If that diagram is on the motor you're trying to wire up, it may be helpful to see the entire diagram as there is a note (partially obscured) telling how to reverse the motor. Also, seeing the difference between the low voltage and high voltage can help one to understand the function of each lead. With a correct motor wiring diagram and an understanding of the connections made in the drum switch we can probably figure out the correct connections between the two.
 
Plate wiring dia.jpg
This is the complete plate. I don't have the Furnas R44 drum diagram. It is on line. I am still not understanding why this motor doesn't have the T4 wire, but has a T6. I have searched for day to fine 1 sketch of a motor without the T4 and nothing. Is Dayton the only one that did this?
Also why would I need to change the wires taped together and why is there 2 wires on Drum post 1 and no jumps.
I hope this helps
 

Attachments

  • Plate wiring.jpg
    Plate wiring.jpg
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This is the complete plate.
The attached images shows one way to connect the wires to the R44 drum switch to achieve the 240VAC wiring diagram you've shown. This assumes that the R44 makes the connections shown in the box at the bottom when in the forward and reverse positions. The wiring shown also assumes that Forward is when the motor turns clockwise when looking at the shaft end. If the opposite sense is needed, simply reverse the 5 and 8 wires.

What I don't like about this arrangement is that one of the hot leads is connected to the motor windings even when the switch is in the Off position. If you were wiring this up for 120VAC operation you could connect the neutral to motor lead 6. I believe that if you had a drum switch that made connections like the Dayton 2X440 does you could wire it so that both hot lines would be disconnected from the motor when in the Off position.

Before you go hook this up, use an ohmmeter to verify that the drum switch makes the connections shown. If it does not then you'll need to note what the actual connections are and make the necessary changes. Also, check the drawing carefully to convince yourself that it makes the proper connections in Forward and Reverse.

Also, you might consider wiring directly to the motor and confirming that the motor operates in both directions when switching leads 5 and 8. After that, and after confirming the drum switch connections you'll be ready to wire the drum switch in between the power feed and the motor. You'll want to very carefully check the wiring in the drum switch (BEFORE CONNECTING POWER) to make sure the wiring is correct and that nothing is touching something that it shouldn't be touching.

Dayton_5K196.jpg
 
Don,
I completed the rewiring and ran the test bypassing the drum switch. The motor worked in forward per the 230v plate worked in reverse switching the 5 and 8 wires. I have a power on/off that turns off the power before the drum switch but I don't like the 6 and L1 hot. Could you sent me the wiring sketch of the Dayton 2X440 drum. I think it would be a good idea to buy that one to be on the safe side.
Thanks for your help.
Gunron
 
Could you sent me the wiring sketch of the Dayton 2X440 drum.
Well,I thought it could be done but after studying it for a while I can't figure out a way to wire the 2x440 so as to break both power leads in the Off position.

Given that you have a disconnect before the drum switch, I'm less concerned about motor lead 6 being connected directly to L2.
 
The switch you have is designed for a 3Φ motor, using it on 1Φ presents the problem of not breaking one of the supply lines. It will work ok, but has to be wired as shown in the drawing. When the switch lead connections don't match the drawing, then you will have issues. That drawing was from years ago and it worked fine for that poster.

There are other drum switches available that are designed for 1Φ motors, and break both legs. I think the Dayton model is the same configuration of the furnace model you have. Look at the switching table and compare.

SAF Ω

DrumSwTypS-230V ConnDiag.jpg

DrumSw TruthTable.jpg
 
SAF, Don,
I thank you both for the information.I am a mechanical engineer and because I am color blind I have tried to stay away from electrical other then housings stuff.
I made the connections per Don's sketch and it works and I agree it's more of a band aid not the cure.

I am willing to buy the correct drum switch if I knew which one to buy.

I am still puzzled as to how it worked as wired with post 1 having 2 wires and 2-6 only 1 wire with no jumpers. The motor is the same as the 230v plate

The wire were all the same color and was needlessly cut before I saw what was done. The lathe ran in both direction as wired.

Thanks for all the help.

Gunron
 
I am a mechanical engineer and because I am color blind [...]
I'm an Electrical Engineer and color blind, too, although it is a mild affliction.


I made the connections per Don's sketch and it works [...]

Inspired by SAF's last post, I came up with an alternate connection scheme (attached) that breaks both hot leads when in the Off position. As with SAF's method, the start winding is always connected between the center tap of the two main windings and L2. What should make it reverse directions is that the outer leads of the two main windings are switched between L1 and L2 in the forward and reverse directions. If the motor doesn't turn the right direction in the Forward position, simply switch the connections of motor leads 1 and 6.

I can't guarantee that this will work (I haven't tried it) but it seems like it should. On further reflection, you could also connect the center left terminal of the drum switch to the lower left instead of the lower right. That may be simpler to do.

Dayton_5K196-2.jpg
 
Mine is pretty bad, red and green, gray is my go to color.

Back to the issue. I will give your sketch a try.

I really appreciate you guys help on my questions and all the others you have helped.

Gunron
 
Don & Gunron,
That last diagram will work fine, swapping the run windings 1&6 instead of the normal start windings 5&8, provides reversal and isolation. Good job thinking outside the box.

It's very similar to the first provided drawing, with the mod of swapping #6 (T4) with T8. Jumper on the same side versus crossing sides of the switch.

SAF Ω

Dayton1HP 230V FurnaceR44 .jpg
 
That last diagram will work fine, swapping the run windings 1&6 instead of the normal start windings 5&8, provides reversal and isolation.
Thanks for confirming. An additional advantage of this method over the one that I suggested in post #12 on this thread is that the new one only requires three wires between the motor and drum switch (not counting a ground) whereas the earlier one requires five.
 








 
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